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Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#741

Post by snowe2010 »

graemep wrote: post #376
ohdeargodno wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries, yes. Despite the push for SUV-styled cards (which are heavier than a regular city car, but not by that much), engines have been small. Toyota Yaris - HSD - 1.5L 4cyl Renault Clio - E-Tech - 1.6L Hyundai Kona (SUV) - 1.6L Honda Jazz - 1.5L Peugeot 208 - 1.2L Peugeot 3008 (SUV) - 1.6L Peugeot 5008 (Family SUV) - 2L And the list goes on. Even BMW with it's xDrive puts out 1.5L engines. Huge engines ar…

The info is useful, but those do not seem to be all that small. There were smaller engines available for the ICE version of the Clio, for example.

A 1.5 liter is incredibly small. You’ll struggle to accelerate up slight inclines with that. If you’re in the mountains it will be even worse.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#742

Post by kawfey »

whycome wrote: post #588
janosch_123 wrote: post #540

For DIY EV conversions (I built some cars) you usually hook up the "regenerate braking" to the brakelight switch. So as soon as you tap the brake pedal just a little, you start regenerating and see the amps flow back into the battery (I have a little display on my dashboard). Only when you press the pedal further, do you start engaging the friction brakes. I have no statistics on brake pad differences because we didn…

With a manual car, it was common to downshift and use the engine to decelerate. I’m wondering if electric vehicles might actually cause a return to a third pedal to re-add some of the fine tuned controls that a manual transmission allowed. Maybe the “downshift” could engage the regen brake specifically.

The bolt EUV has a paddle on the wheel above the turn signal stalk that is used to invoke regen braking in normal drive mode, and when used in one-pedal drive mode adds an extra bit of regen without having to use the brake pedal. It also doubles to cancel cruise control. It's in the perfect location too. And it feels very well blended, precise, constant, and smooth.

Every other EV should have this. I often get EV rental Hyundais, which have 4 levels of iPedal - 3 regen levels and "max" aka one-pedal drive. They're managed by paddle shifters on the wheel. They don't default back to one pedal and any extra re-gen is still managed by the brake pedal.

I googled to find a link to share in this comment to discover how much love (or superiority complex) the chevy regen paddle has -- https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/regen-paddle-the-superior-...

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#743

Post by dalyons »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #378
ddeck wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about the US, but the Japanese didn't stop focusing on hybrid development. More than half of all sales in Japan are hybrids, whereas electric is only a few percent [1]. Honda even recently announced that they're scaling back on electric to focus on hybrids: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/japans... [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-19/hybrid-ca...

Yes but Honda seems to be doing this because they can’t make batteries. BYD can, ever cheaper, and they’re expanding their plug-in offerings much faster than Honda is scaling them back. I’m worried for Japanese car makers.

Yep. Hybrids are a dead end, they’ll be obsolete in a few short years

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#744

Post by m463 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #425
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

Yes, but only to some degree. Quote from the actual report: > As the level of electrification of a vehicle rises, the dependence on regenerative braking also increases, thus lowering PM emissions from brake wear. Based on recent evidence [30], regenerative braking can reduce, in the worst- case scenario (i.e. highest usage of mechanical brakes or equivalently lowest usage of regenerative braking), brake wear emission…

This makes sense since vehicles with bigger batteries can absorb more energy with regenerative braking.

I remember decades ago where they figured out the horsepower of a high-end porsche to go 0-100-0, and if the acceleration horsepower expended was 500hp, the deceleration horsepower absorbed by the brakes was probably 1000 hp.

I wouldn't be surprised if hybrids could only absorb 10 hp, while bigger cars could absorb 50.

One thought - if any of these manufacturers provided "braking resistors" like diesel-hybrid locomotives use, regenerative energy could be electrically turned into heat, instead of mechanically by wearing the brakes.

using resistors would be "green".

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#745

Post by sofixa »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #673
sofixa wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any idea how many hours the average person uses their phone Irrelevant on the topic of there being more efficient modes of transportation of humans in dense environments. > There is no other object that has been a greater detriment to mental and physical health in human history While potentially true, that's entirely ignoring all the extremely useful things people do with their phones. > only using publ…

For your own mental health, you need to take a breath and try and not take alternative viewpoints as personal attacks. The post I responded to referenced "efforts to try to reduce the number of cars on the roads instead of just replacing them 1:1 and calling it a day." i.e. reducing personal car ownership. Don't ignore the fact that people do extremely useful things with their cars- lifesaving activities. You obvious…

> For your own mental health, you need to take a breath and try and not take alternative viewpoints as personal attacks

Like jumping to prison cells and bug juice at the hint of reducing the amount of cars on the roads?

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#746

Post by sofixa »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #668
sofixa wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, not having a car is a tradeoff YOU are willing to make so your are ok with pushing it on others. Nobody is trying to take your car away, you scared person who cannot fathom not being attached to a car. I'm merely saying there must be alternatives to driving. I don't care what they are, they will be location dependent. If you want to drive, as long as you pay your externalities, nobody cares. But it's fundament…

Don't be afraid piglet, I won't take your phone. Nobody is trying to outlaw public transport- but there absolutely people advocating for an end to private ownership of cars

> Nobody is trying to outlaw public transport

In Anglophone North America, a lot of people ate trying and succeeding in crippling it to such an extent that only those who literally have no other choice use it.

> there absolutely people advocating for an end to private ownership of cars

A fringe of a fringe, maybe.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#747

Post by KingMob »

djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #162
KingMob wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of us don't have a plan B if the Earth is wrecked by pollution, but I guess if you beg Musk hard enough, he might invite you to Mars. We can either do drastic things now, or desperate things later.

Hyperbole like that doesn't help anyone. Pollution and environmental destruction are big problems, but there are no remotely likely scenarios where the Earth "is wrecked by pollution" and a HN reader would need to question the viability of remaining on the planet.

I'm using sarcasm here, not hyperbole.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#748

Post by dotancohen »

beau_g wrote: post #221
dotancohen wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that downshifting involves a clutch operation, moving the engine into a higher RPM. That most certainly wears down the clutch, talking as someone who's replaced quite a few of them.

I've seen an interesting A-B test with this seeing the difference in clutch wear between the Ferrari F1 transmission in the 599 and 612 and the DuoSelect transmission which is essentially the same box in the Quattroporte. The shifting strategy and technique is more of a controlled variable here because the shifting is automatic though it's a somewhat traditional manual gearbox with hydraulic actuation. The QP is a bi…

Everything on the QPs was always breaking.

I've never driven an automatic Ferrari or paddle shifted Ferrari to compare, but the QP that I drove (Ferrari V-8, I think that it even said Ferrari on the valve covers maybe) didn't have anything outstanding about the transmission that I remember. I thought it was a regular hydraulic automatic with a torque converter, so they really did tune it nicely. The robotic Toyotas I could feel. Maybe had they not tuned it so nicely it might have lasted longer?

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#749

Post by euroderf »

cperciva wrote: post #176
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

which is the whole point of hybrids Part of the point, not the whole point. Regenerative breaking is absolutely a win; but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

> a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

I remember buying plans from the Whole Earth News for such a car back around 1980. That was the selling point - keep the ICE running at an optimal point. I've not seen those same plans reproduced online.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#750

Post by euroderf »

euroderf wrote: post #749
cperciva wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is the whole point of hybrids Part of the point, not the whole point. Regenerative breaking is absolutely a win; but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

> a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range. I remember buying plans from the Whole Earth News for such a car back around 1980. That was the selling point - keep the ICE running at an optimal point. I've not seen those same plans reproduced online.

Aha! https://store.motherearthnews.com/products/hybrid-car-bluepr...
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