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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#741

Post by sideshowb »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #655
sideshowb wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit baffled why Germany's numbers are so bad here. In the UK the government takes far more in revenue from drivers than it spends on the roads.

Maybe in UK local roads are funded differently? If you counted only national roads in Poland it would seem that Poland takes more in revenue than spends on roads, which isn't true if you count expenses on all the local roads that aren't in national budget.

No my op includes local roads though you're right you do have to gather the data from local authorities

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#742

Post by itronitron »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #641
itronitron wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a low probability, high impact event in a country with limited public access to affordable health care and very limited access to therapists.

The US has much better access to mental health care than any European country. Not to mention everyone who lives in a walkable city there lives in a state where healthcare access is good.

That is simply not true.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#743

Post by itronitron »

maigret wrote: post #485
itronitron wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a low probability, high impact event in a country with limited public access to affordable health care and very limited access to therapists.

By that thinking, looking at the data, you should prevent kids from seeing their family… Understand the nonsense? But nonsense gets often commonsensical when everyone in your circle believes it. Going outside has more benefits than risks. Like biking, yes you are at risk of accident, but in the average you’ll be fitter and live longer.

>> in the average you’ll be fitter and live longer

That's sort of the point about low probability events though, it doesn't affect the average but it has a significant impact on the individual.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#744

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

server_man3000 wrote: post #2

Didn’t this start as unlimited anywhere for 9 euros no strings attached? I LOVE the German transit system (although Denmark wins in cleanliness). However, Germany is a bit predatory with this new system. You can ONLY purchase this ticket as a subscription model. If you’re a tourist, you must cancel before the 10th of the month or you get auto rebilled. Additionally, there are so many apps that resell the ticket as so…

All of these tickets are only for local/regional trains, not the faster/long-distance trains. You can get from one end of the country to another by changing trains a few time, but e.g. getting from Munich to Berlin would be 6h (direct) with fast trains and 10+ h (changing 3 times) with the regional ones.

The subscription model is intentional - this isn't meant to help tourists or to be bought when you need it, it's meant to make sure people have already pre-paid the cost when making a decision whether to take a train or a car (by being cheap enough that people subscribe even if they don't use it all the time).

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#745

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

overflyer wrote: post #150

Which I as a German simply fail to fathom. The quality of our Deutsche Bahn is so bad I would never drive by train. The worst thing is that they are incapable to have their trains be on time. Whenever you travel there is an extremely high chance you will not arrive at your destination in time.

The regional trains (which the ticket applies to) are much better than the long-distance trains: https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen...

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#746

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

finikytou wrote: post #590
looofooo0 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare cost also decline, and people become less sick because you have to walk some amount to get to the train.

in Paris (and pretty sure that applies to pretty much any big western city, new york for instance is worse in a few of the criterias ill reference) subway increase stress, frequent delays(if you have 2-3 train as part of your commute you will experience it daily), pollution down under is high, virus/covid transmission is high, pickpockets are everywhere if not worse, bedbug, pee smell, junkies. Id take a car any day.

The Paris metro is amongst the most frequented in the world and operates near peak capacity. You absolutely can’t compare it to anything in Germany. Germany doesn’t really have a city which can be compared to Paris. Berlin has the most populated urban area and it has less than half the population of the Paris one. The only similar city in Europe is London.

Plus there is no bed bugs and pickpockets are an oddity outside of the most touristy stations.

Anyway, considering how awful it is to drive and park in Paris, you would have to be crazy to use a car instead of taking the train which is why nearly everyone does. Plus, with the mandatory employer subvention, it’s incredibly cheap at 44€ a month. The only credible alternative is biking which is indeed more and more popular.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#747

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

your_drunk_dad wrote: post #679

No amount of subsidy will make me give up my car. Obviously I also use trains but having a car is just too convenient in some situations and in some places not having a car is just disability.

The ticket achieves most of its goal even if you keep your car for the more annoying edge cases but move a significant fraction of your trips from car to rail.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#748

Post by ipaddr »

ciceryadam wrote: post #649
ipaddr wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have a car parking space and a children's park in the same place: you must make a choice. They also provide utility. If you remove parking spaces near a children's park less children can/will visit. You need a balance.

Tell me you are an American, without telling me you are an American. You can reach a children's park on foot or by taking public transportation, so ideally there's no need for a parking lot right next to it.

You can visit your local park hopefully you live in an area with one. You can invest time using transit to get to another park. Traveling during rush hour would be difficult. Traveling with many children or younger children adds a difficulty. Being disabled or older or worse disabled with children more difficult. For the young, childless, plenty of time on their hands or live next to a park of course walking a few steps is a no brainer.

But it's like buying a gym membership across town with the idea that you would walk everyday. You aren't going once winter hits.

Not American but have been young and took transit and walked everywhere but also seen seniors in wheelchairs who stopped going to the park after they stopped allowing cars to park.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#749

Post by punchmesan »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #572
punchmesan wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A contract isn't a subsidy... A subsidy would be giving them dollars without any particular strings attached except perhaps to use those funds to develop the product. If the contract is to provide money in exchange for services, that's called a transaction.

I see it differently: for example the fact that the US government spends a lot of money on military can in my opinion clearly be called a subsidy for the military-industrial complex.

So then if the government buys pens and reams of paper, then it's the government subsidizing office supply stores? But it's not a subsidy if a corporation spends money on the same supplies?

My employer does business with the DoD and with private corporate entities. Both the government and the private sector spend the same money and receive the same products and services. I appreciate that you have a different perspective, but I have a hard time considering my employer "subsidized by the US government" just because the government purchases our product.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#750

Post by graemep »

Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #736
graemep wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know about Germany, but most countries have taxes on car ownership and fuel, so you need to offset those against the expenditure on roads. Road construction and maintenance also benefits other road users - transport vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians and emergency vehicles etc.

The degradation of road surfaces is caused almost entirely by automobiles. Think of how often dedicated walking and cycling routes need to be repaved—almost never. Car owners only pay about half of the cost of road maintenance in the US[1]. [1] https://frontiergroup.org/resources/who-pays-roads/

How much in germany, which is what the post is about? How much in other countrie?

> The degradation of road surfaces is caused almost entirely by automobiles.

Given the fourth power law I find it hard to believe that larger vehicles, especially good vehicles , are not significant.

Even without wear, surfaces deteriorate. You cannot claim that pavements and cycle lanes are zero maintenance, or have negligible costs to build.

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