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GitHub, fuck your name change

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Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#741

Post by AndyMcConachie » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

imbnwa wrote: post #650

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

Black SWE here as well, highly disagree with this. If Microsoft/Github wanted to issue "a useful reminder of the implicit bias that contributes to the lack of diversity in tech", they could've founded an non-profit dedicated to training and job placement for BIPOC and underrepresented white women, they could've kept a continuous banner on their site that linked to relevant legislation, initiatives, causes, etc. They…

First off. Thank you for your comment. As a white European I need to hear these perspectives and I don't hear them enough.

Your comment reminded me of those email signatures that say something like, "Please think of the environment before you print this." Do they actually accomplish anything or do they just annoy people?

We need to weigh the real impact of actions against their potential annoyance. Because otherwise we're turning people off to the goals we're trying to achieve.

There was recently an environmental action in my city to stop traffic with a banner during a busy Sunday when lots of people were returning to the city. The activists did it because they wanted to get people to notice and care about the environment. The motorists were of course very annoyed and many of them posted on social media about this. Does annoying a bunch of motorists work towards saving the environment or just alienate people who could have been your allies?

There's a similar dynamic happening here.

A name was changed.

The change annoyed some people. Some people were not annoyed.

Nothing else happened.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#742

Post by CyberRabbi » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

dottlt wrote: post #629

_nckn wrote: post #592

I'm Asian, wasn't born in America and didn't grew up in America as well. I don't have a horse in this race. I don't feel annoyed to change that term. I'm only annoyed if someone guilt trip me if I don't change the name out of ignorance (i.e, I don't follow politics, no time for social media). I don't think I have any bias against women or minority in tech. Changing main or master or slave doesn't ring a bell or evoke…

I just keep my mouth shut talking to anyone in a minority status, born in the west, that I don't know well. I've seen it go wrong several times so I'm just 100% business. I'll get hate for admitting this, but what am I supposed to do? No one wants to think critically or challenge their beliefs on the matter, so if I'm not willing to 100% toe the line if I do make a mistake then either I have to debase myself in an Or…

That’s the rational thing to do. Lots of risk, little reward. Everyone reaps what they sow eventually anyway.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#743

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

cheez0r wrote: post #552

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

This. These changes to remove subconscious bias from our language are necessary. They are microaggressions which the average user doesn't even realize exist- but which do harms to some individuals in our society. This may be a minority group within our society- even a very small fraction of a percent- but removing biases which are perceived as harmful is one way that we as an organization demonstrate that we are bein…

Can you name a single person the term 'master branch' has hurt?

Your subconscious bias of being an oppressor is showing. You are pushing your views onto others. This is what some slave owners tried to do. Maybe you should check your privilege and stop engaging in microaggressions before accusing everybody else of doing the same.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#744

Post by Igelau » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

> So, next time you are annoyed that you have to fix a script or you accidentally type master when you needed to type main, please just take a deep breath, change the name, and remember to reflect upon whether you have are subconscious habits or biases that work against diversity in tech.

Which sounds okay(1) if all I'm working on is a simple document. If I'm in the larger context of making a change in code because it's breaking something somewhere else, the cognitive overhead of switching gears from "technical mode" to "political mode" to "what the heck was I really doing again?" is costly.

(1) I had "great" but downgraded it to "okay" because literally no one is offended by this -- it's virtue signaling to make rich people feel like they look better.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#745

Post by SyzygistSix » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

guscost wrote: post #556

vmception wrote: post #47

I’m a black American and agree with everything that this person in London wrote. It is also a common criticism of the American “left”, and is entirely accurate. For everyone perplexed about black Americans and other people of color walking away from the left, its because you/they don't see us as equals that can be bothered by the exact same things that other Americans can be bothered by: being told what to think, wat…

What do you think about the claim that LBJ’s great society effectively incentivized breaking up black families, with tragic consequences? Seems another good reason to “walk away from the left” if even their apparently sincere projects keep backfiring like that.

I think the War on Drugs was far more responsible for that than LBJ.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#746

Post by samkone » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

I am black, and I honestly find this change ridiculous. Born in Africa and lives in the US. And honestly this is ridiculous. At some point this becomes painful it spare the real discussions that need to have about slavery and history.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#747

Post by jimbob45 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

I vehemently disagree. Such virtue signaling is okay when one is on empirically high moral ground. If the lesson were “stay away from snakes” or “stop, drop, and roll”, there would be no possible debate over those topics and we might all agree that a frequent refresher would be welcome.

However, there remains considerable discussion over oppression, race, and politics. For you to shoehorn in your personal viewpoint here immediately ends the discussion and implies that your side is right, when that may not be the case.

Think about if we changed the names literally to “n-word” and “white whip”. You’d be just as disgusted as I am for the opposing side to claim empirical moral high ground and to force you to accept something that you don’t find to be a settled debate.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#748

Post by analog31 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #47

I’m a black American and agree with everything that this person in London wrote. It is also a common criticism of the American “left”, and is entirely accurate. For everyone perplexed about black Americans and other people of color walking away from the left, its because you/they don't see us as equals that can be bothered by the exact same things that other Americans can be bothered by: being told what to think, wat…

As one who leans towards the left, I can reassure you that I've never told anybody what to think, nor have I been vicariously offended, and I barely communicate anything to anybody, which renders my "signaling footprint" pretty darn small. I'm doubtful that those are fair generalizations, and skeptical of critical signaling theory.

I read about the GitHub name change, then completely forgot about it until I saw this HN thread. At the time I think I asked our internal Git guru if this was going to change anything, and he said don't worry about it.

My concern is that a few gaffes from here and there are combined into some unifying characteristic of my "wing," when most people simply take little or no notice of them.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#749

Post by wtetzner » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

drngxn wrote: post #706

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

> What's powerful about this name change is that it pushes us to alter a habit, in my case one embedded deeply in my fingers, something that I do every day without realizing that I'm doing it This is the entire point, this sentence right here.

But why is it important to change that habit, if it has no beneficial impact?

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#750

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #690

_nckn wrote: post #592

I'm Asian, wasn't born in America and didn't grew up in America as well. I don't have a horse in this race. I don't feel annoyed to change that term. I'm only annoyed if someone guilt trip me if I don't change the name out of ignorance (i.e, I don't follow politics, no time for social media). I don't think I have any bias against women or minority in tech. Changing main or master or slave doesn't ring a bell or evoke…

>> First time I came to the US and I conversed with this Asian women friend, who told me that she wanted to go to business school, and I asked her "why business school?" and suddenly another Asian women (friend of her) cut me and said "Oh why not, because she is a woman?" and I was like "wow, where did that come from? what does that even mean?" and since that day I know that US racial issue is fucked up big time. It…

Does that logic work for why I cross the street when I see a black person coming my way?

Why? I'm hypersensitive; is it more likely I got that way apropos of nothing, that I just bought into some racist culture that is determined to create claims of issues wholecloth against blacks to rail against, or because I -have- been mugged by a black person enough times that I assume the worst?

Would you take an empathetic view to where I'm coming from?

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