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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#741

Post by nemo44x »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #698
nemo44x wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price did go down for about a couple years and here we are today. I think if anything people are more likely to buy the dips and see it as a buying opportunity rather than a reason to. So what drives the increase in price? Many reasons. Because it's going up? Sure, that's accounts for some. It's a store of value against a government that printed 22% of all dollars ever created last year? Yeah. In a world that see…

> It's a store of value against a government that printed 22% of all dollars ever created last year? What asset isn't a store of value? Inflation, by definition, is when the price of something inflates. Bitcoin's price is inflating in dollar terms. Someone invested in stocks and real estate is protected from US dollar inflation. The idea that Bitcoin is the only way to protect against inflation, or even that it's a g…

Stocks and real estate are great. You should own that too. BTC is unique in that it is protected from government and corporate mismanagement. Real estate and stocks - not so much.

There’s so many good reasons BTC should be in your portfolio that I’d call it irresponsible to not own it at this point.

I do think there are some seriously sour grapes among those that thought they were too smart for it or something and they feel they’ve missed the train. But it’s real and it’s a revolution and people will end up owning BTC indirectly through ETF’s or other aggregate investments. I don’t really care though - maybe it’s just not for everyone.

Could be wrong but I haven’t been the last 8.5 years I’ve been invested as the vision and potential of it is so obvious to me. Of course if I had a dollar for every time I’ve read it’s a fad/tulips/useless/etc (I think the new one is it’s bad for the environment lol) I’d be doing just as well.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#742

Post by twaybtclong »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

I had 2% of my net worth in currencies subject to social media pump and dump schemes. It ballooned to 100% and now I have airplanes and stocks.

Is that worth 2% of your net worth? You should read about optionality. You don't have to be poor if you understand risk.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#743

Post by pbourke »

globular-toast wrote: post #94
sschueller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is outright scam in my view. They never have to hold bitcoin. They may as well sell paypal coin. Robinhood and Revolut do the same thing. If you can't transfer out your bitcoin, you don't have any bitcoin.

When you get paid at the end of the month do you think there is a bloke with a wheelbarrow full of gold, or salt, or even bits of paper running between banks ensuring you get your salary? You've just figured out the entire private banking sector ;)

It’s one thing to do it with fiat currency, because ultimately there’s a central bank involved as the first lender.

With “fractional reserve crypto” all hell seems like it can break loose - much like the pre-central banking era of monetary instability.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#744

Post by PragmaticPulp »

heidar wrote: post #628
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin was all over the news a decade ago. The reason it's not popular is that the early narrative wasn't "too the moon!" The narrative was that Bitcoin was the currency of the future and that we'd all be using Bitcoin for transactions. Anyone who actually used Bitcoin at the time could see how there was no chance of it taking off as a payment mechanism. That's still true today, especially with $8+ transaction fees.…

Given what you're commenting all over this post, it's pretty clear you don't follow developments in the cryptocurrency space much. Bitcoin is stale, there's no development or innovation happening. It has become a store of value only. The only possible solution that could change that is the Lightning network or other Layer 2 protocols. There are plenty of other coins however that are doing super exciting innovation. B…

Can we please dispense with the ad-hominem attacks?

I've been following cryptocurrency since 2009/2010, and I've worked adjacent to the space at one point.

There are plenty of us who were enthusiastic about cryptocurrencies before the narrative moved away from distributed systems and turned into a pure financial play for everyone involved.

> There are plenty of other coins however that are doing super exciting innovation.

The real question is: Why must they be coins?

Why can't they simply develop blockchain technology that doesn't revolve around inventing an all-new currency?

The competition for innovation is fun. The competition for everyone to buy each cryptocurrency on exchanges and then pump it across social media is not.

I'll be excited again when we can stop inventing new currencies left and right and just skip straight to distributed systems for managing our existing cash. I don't want to have to invest in 20 different cryptocurrencies out of the 1000s on the market just to be able to interact with all of the different systems. I don't want to manage my payment methods like investments. And frankly, I don't think the average person cares about the underlying innovation because they just want to speculate.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#746

Post by MrMan »

lazide wrote: post #429
buran77 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty though if you started using BTC as your main currency*, replacing your national currency, one day you'd have your money in BTC, the next day their value would be wiped out. We're not talking about a slow and steady decline, halving of the value in a decade. We're talking "no money to buy food for the next few months". Many people in countries with unstable currencies are particularly vulnerable to this…

I don’t think you’re wrong. You might be missing a bigger game though. BTC is fundamentally deflationary in nature - let’s ignore the price volatility and the like for now, I’ll cover that later. It has also so far proven incredibly resistant to attack, both inside and outside the community and despite easy billion dollar payouts if an attack would be successful. There are also efforts making good progress (lightning…

Let’s talk larger game - assume the btc-denominated economic zone becomes non-negligible in size. The best defense for neighboring economic zones is good fiscal governance. Because BTC land will be an anarchic mess. It will have multiple germanies and Greece’s and Nigeria’s within it, and Cartel controlled sub zones, etc. who will deal with rising levels of indebtedness in BTC instruments? Who will deal with fraud, cartels seizing companies and households’ reserves, or simply defaulting on debt in this “trust less” Dystopia?

Vastly different levels of productivity between regions of the same economic zones or between zones can result in crazy social friction without trade regulation and controls - how will BTC land manage this friction?

Additionally - the energy and security requirements of btc zone participants will become crushing. Why will market participants continue to labor in this spiraling High energy hell when they can retreat to the much lower energy state of a trustful, managed economic zone? It will be like a breath of fresh air.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#747

Post by shawnz »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #698
nemo44x wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price did go down for about a couple years and here we are today. I think if anything people are more likely to buy the dips and see it as a buying opportunity rather than a reason to. So what drives the increase in price? Many reasons. Because it's going up? Sure, that's accounts for some. It's a store of value against a government that printed 22% of all dollars ever created last year? Yeah. In a world that see…

> It's a store of value against a government that printed 22% of all dollars ever created last year? What asset isn't a store of value? Inflation, by definition, is when the price of something inflates. Bitcoin's price is inflating in dollar terms. Someone invested in stocks and real estate is protected from US dollar inflation. The idea that Bitcoin is the only way to protect against inflation, or even that it's a g…

Having more speculators actually makes it more likely that the asset is fairly valued.

Speculators are the driving force which "correct" the price of overvalued or undervalued assets. More speculators mean that assets will reach their "fair price" more quickly. In this way speculators actually reduce volatility and make it harder to manipulate the market.

Keep in mind that speculators are not necessarily in long positions, they could also be shorting Bitcoin (which would be the logical thing to do if you believe there's a bubble).

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#748

Post by PragmaticPulp »

randomopining wrote: post #32

Bitcoin = store of value. Network effect is reducing the chance of government intervention, as well as blockchain tail risks. Getting 1 of the 21 million bitcoins is like decentralized proof of saying "I had 48k worth of value in Feb 2021!" It locks in the value that you created forever. Otherwise governments will just keep printing money, and your value gets diluted arbitrarily. Assuming the mechanisms of protection…

> Getting 1 of the 21 million bitcoins is like decentralized proof of saying "I had 48k worth of value in Feb 2021!"

Bitcoin doesn't prove anything about your USD value. Bitcoin blockchain only proves how many Bitcoin you have. Nothing about how much they're worth.

No one cares how much your 1BTC was valued at an arbitrary date in the past. The only thing that matters is how much someone else is willing to pay for it right now.

If you buy 1BTC for $48K, you don't have $48K. You have $0 and 1BTC. Someone else has your $48K.

> It locks in the value that you created forever. Otherwise governments will just keep printing money, and your value gets diluted arbitrarily.

What is inflation? Inflation is when the price of something is pushed up. You don't need to buy Bitcoin to avoid inflation. You can also buy stocks, or real estate, or gold, or businesses, or any other number of investments. Basically, do anything other than put cash under your mattress and you'll avoid currency inflation. Bitcoin isn't even close to unique in this regard. People have been investing to avoid inflation for centuries before Bitcoin came along. This idea that Bitcoin is the only way to avoid USD inflation is a deliberately misleading narrative from the people who want you to buy Bitcoin instead of other assets. Fear-mongering.

Bitcoin, however, is inflating in US dollar terms. It is inflating due to demand-pull inflation, by the textbook definition of inflation. The fixed supply of Bitcoin isn't what drives the price up. The only thing that drives the price up is demand.

> Assuming the mechanisms of protection for the blockchain holds, it should work out exactly as that.

No, blockchain has no notion of price. USD prices of BTC are purely a function of exchanges. Exchanges don't even touch the blockchain until you withdraw from the exchange.

Blockchain only protects your 1BTC. It doesn't protect your $48K value. The $48K value comes from other people buying Bitcoin. Why are they buying Bitcoin? Because they expect the price to go up. Why do they expect the price to go up? Because other people are buying Bitcoin.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#749

Post by oorion »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

Bitcoin Cash functions as peer to peer electronic currency with low fees. No need for Mastercard when using it.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#750

Post by MrMan »

waprin wrote: post #324
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

I used to think cryptocurrency was a solution in search of a problem, but the Robinhood fiasco has made me think otherwise. I find their clearing house explanation woefully insufficient in details, and open to the possiblity of being technically the truth but misleading (for example, they gave mass margin to lots of new accounts so they technically lacked collateral, but if they stopped new signups then cleared cash…

This is some kind of astroturfing
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