MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies • Hacker News Board

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#421

Post by grapehut » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #330

Sargos wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.

HN should have been on the cutting edge of crypto, given its “hacker” supposed ethos, but a large group of no-coiners couldn’t understand it and have posted the same tired arguments ad nauseum for years. There are a lot of people on HN who love and support crypto but the arguments are exhausting and you get nothing but downvotes. All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I chan…

I think a lot of it is just people not wanting to admit they were wrong. It's far easier to double down. I remember almost being convinced by patio11 that bitcoin was stupid and dumping it at like $30, but thankfully didn't. Now I get a bit of a kick out seeing him come out of the woodworks when ever bitcoin or tether hits a hiccup gloating how they were right!

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#422

Post by sizzle » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

FalconSensei wrote: post #377

sorbits wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And settlement happens in seconds to a couple minutes That is incorrect. On average it takes 10 minutes to mine a block, but you have to submit the transaction to be included in the block, so > 10 minutes before it appears on the blockchain. However, there are actually many block chains, as miners creates block in parallel, it’s the longest one that is the “official”, but the minute you see your transaction in a bl…

Awesome, go to the supermarket, pay with BTC and wait there for an hour for your transaction to complete. Or try to buy anything time/quantity limited, so you don't get it because the transaction took too long to complete. Meanwhile, in Canada, I just do a money transfer by email without any fees (if sending more than $10), and it's almost instant if the receiver have auto-deposit set up.

Why would you have to wait an hour? A credit card isn't instant? Isn't there some level of trust involved here?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#423

Post by svachalek » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

gt565k wrote: post #345

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

You are so wrong. Spending crypto using a card is actually what people want in order to avoid taxes on crypto as it's treated as a security from the IRS tax perspective. Anyone who has made money on crypto would love it if they can just spend the crypto as currency and buy every day things with it and remove the tax liability from having to convert to fiat. 15% tax capital gains, no thanks, let me spend it on food an…

At least in the US, spending crypto is taxed the same as selling it.

https://www.coinbase.com/learn/tips-and-tutorials/crypto-and...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#424

Post by oillio » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

rawtxapp wrote: post #347

scotty79 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Visa and MasterCard will warm up to bitcoin they will have ideal product for all the bitcoin millionaires. When you are long on bitcoin you almost don't care about volatility. Because you can't predict the future the only good time to buy bitcoin is when you have too much dollars and the only good time when to sell bitcoins is when you have not enough dollars. Sure, now you have 10 mln dollars in BTC at all tine…

This is very similar to what I'm currently doing, just borrowing against my Bitcoin holdings using MakerDAO, I have good liquidity on a day to day basis and my Bitcoin is still appreciating.

Is this a long term solution? Or do you plan on selling Bitcoin to pay back the loan when you think we are near the top?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#425

Post by throw89323432 » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #258

krisdol wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I own about $11 worth of bitcoin if I round up a bit, so this might be biased. The most convincing "point" of bitcoin I've heard is to accomodate transfer of large sums of money across borders, quickly, with minimal transaction costs and oversight. Everyone here can afford the fee to transact 8 billion dollars worth of bitcoin. And settlement happens in seconds to a couple minutes. That's appealing t…

Yeah, sure settlement in Bitcoin happens within a few minutes. Getting that converted into usable money is a whole other story, no? I can basically think of two scenario types when you are in need of international, spontaneous money transfer: a) "I just got carjacked in Sierra Leone and need some money for an hotel and a flight home" b) "I have some weird novel business and I would like to pay my contractors in East…

I had contractor on Litecoin in Russia for 6 months. Worked pretty well.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#426

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

l_pan_ wrote: post #410

ccheney wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, we're still not there yet. I love the idea of cryptocurrency but it's being treated more like a speculative investment vehicle than a currency for goods & services. Sure, you can buy some stuff with it but its volatility is generated through all of the speculators. It needs to be stabilized if we're ever going to replace fiat currency.

It has already been https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stablecoin.asp Andreessen Horowitz invested $15 million in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_(cryptocurrency)

What happens to stablecoins when central banks hand out digital wallets [1] to everyone alongside instant payments [2]?

[1] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/the-rise...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_payment#Examples_of_in...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#427

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #325

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

When Visa and MasterCard will warm up to bitcoin they will have ideal product for all the bitcoin millionaires. When you are long on bitcoin you almost don't care about volatility. Because you can't predict the future the only good time to buy bitcoin is when you have too much dollars and the only good time when to sell bitcoins is when you have not enough dollars. Sure, now you have 10 mln dollars in BTC at all tine…

This isn't a new situation or unique to Bitcoin, though.

It's the exact same story for any high net worth investors with most of their net worth tied up in stocks.

If you have 10 million dollars invested, be it stocks or Bitcoin, then pulling out $10K (0.1%) here and there to top up your cash account or pay your credit card off each month isn't exactly a huge deal. Investing that last 0.1% into stocks or Bitcoin at all times doesn't make a measurable impact on your overall returns.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#428

Post by nikolay » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #254

nikolay wrote: post #248

I am not sure who in their right mind will buy BTC at $48K a piece! There's nothing major that's has happened, yet, the bubble has inflated from $6K to $47K only because it's now harder to steal electricity in China and the rest of the world to mine bitcoins. Every week in Bulgaria we hear for a new electricity thieves who got caught and have stolen electricity for millions - often in the middle of nowhere like in sm…

Mining participation does not change the issuance of new bitcoin. If there was 1 miner in the entire world the issuance would be the same. Please educate yourself more about crypto in general, understanding the core concepts only takes a few minutes of research.

Why would I want to touch something laden with crime with a 10-foot pole?! And something so detrimental to climate? Bitcoin didn't, isn't, and is not gonna change anything - it's nothing but a speculation tool! Can we please stop inflating its bubble? Yes, there are meaningful cryptocurrencies, but Bitcoin holds no future - it's like sticking to VHS when there's Bluray or to a 3.5-inch floppy when there's MicroSD.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#429

Post by lazide » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #386

vbezhenar wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. 1 USD = 155 KZT in 2014, 1 USD = 425 KZT right now.

In all honesty though if you started using BTC as your main currency*, replacing your national currency, one day you'd have your money in BTC, the next day their value would be wiped out. We're not talking about a slow and steady decline, halving of the value in a decade. We're talking "no money to buy food for the next few months". Many people in countries with unstable currencies are particularly vulnerable to this…

I don’t think you’re wrong. You might be missing a bigger game though.

BTC is fundamentally deflationary in nature - let’s ignore the price volatility and the like for now, I’ll cover that later.

It has also so far proven incredibly resistant to attack, both inside and outside the community and despite easy billion dollar payouts if an attack would be successful.

There are also efforts making good progress (lightning network among others), addressing structural issues, and large scale semi regulated brokers with good track records (coinbase, kraken).

The price volatility is speculative, and while some is get rich quick (well, a lot), some is also what happens in a deflationary spiral.

If we speculate that Bitcoin will end up being a ‘not able to be broken by a greedy gov’t like all the other currencies’ means of exchange, the current price is cheap. Every large institution will need some to clear central bank type transactions (the part that may be what ends up on the blockchain), and 14 million ish isn’t enough at current prices.

If we speculate that will never happen; the current price is ridiculous and it’s all just a giant Ponzi scheme.

Frankly, neither of these options it is fair to rule out, and the volatility is because of uncertainty and the wide variability in value for Bitcoin between these options.

We’re entering a stage where global attitudes are shifting to one of distrust, especially between countries and citizens and their gov’ts, and some means of exchange that doesn’t require a distrusted entity to play nice has value, even if it isn’t 50k per.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#430

Post by oillio » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

Slartie wrote: post #101

PretzelPirate wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the minority in that I’d like to be able to spend my cryptocurrency in a way that: 1. The card handles also selling some off for taxes every transaction and put that in an interest-accruing account. 2. The card tracked my capital gains for each transaction for easy reporting on taxes. 3. The card provider will help manage fees - I’d rather bulk deposit funds to a layer2 and have fee-less payments over having t…

> 1. The card handles also selling some off for taxes every transaction and put that in an interest-accruing account. > 2. The card tracked my capital gains for each transaction for easy reporting on taxes. How should it ever do that? It would basically have to limit you to spend Bitcoin that you acquired over that exact same card (like when you buy Bitcoin via PayPal) and that you hold in a virtual wallet provided b…

You could enter your basis when you transfer coins into the account.

This is how it works with other assets. If you transfer stocks between brokerage accounts, they communicate the basis as well.