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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

theverge.com

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#741

Post by AdrianB1 »

shrimpx wrote: post #729
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

This is such a tough issue because you could argue zuckerberg is taking this exact stance when he refuses to moderate harmful content because they’re a “mere platform”. From that perspective you could see Apple as selling you “the whole end to end experience” and therefore taking responsibility for and curating all of it. So what do we want? What’s more evil and harmful? Pure platforms and their obliviousness as to g…

It is not tough at all: your hardware and your OS are oblivious of good vs. bad and you want it to be that way. Why not a platform? You want Microsoft to curate your apps? Then why FB to do it for the content you can see? You should make the choices, not others make it for you.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#742

Post by gwd »

grey-area wrote: post #688
wheelie_boy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. Security doesn't require a 30% cut of every transaction though, nor does it require them to ban other payment methods. Apple should be forced to compete on a level playing field, rather than leveraging their platform to bully other companies into compliance.

> Security doesn't require a 30% cut of every transaction though

How do you think that the iOS platform is paid for? Apple's current business model is supported by paying the Apple Tax. If they don't get that tax revenue, they're going to have to either reduce the quality of their platform, or get more revenue somewhere else, like selling my data to advertising companies.

Right now I have a choice to buy a phone whose software ecosystem is supported by hardware sales and appstore taxes, or a phone whose software ecosystem is supported by spying on me. If Apple is forced to give up their Apple Tax, I will no longer have that choice.

If Fortnite wanted, they could just make things more expensive on iOS, passing the Apple Tax on to consumers. That's how stores treat sales tax and VAT in different countries; there's no reason app developers can't do the same thing. If users don't like paying more they can go to other platforms; and if users like the iOS platform, they should accept that paying more for apps is part of what makes it possible.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#743

Post by jamil7 »

reallydontask wrote: post #704

Is the issue the cut or the percentage? I'd imagine that a sliding scale would be far more palatable for big companies, say every order of magnitude increase above say 1000 in installs, the cut drops by 5%, so if you have 1 million installs, any extra would be 15%. I suppose there is the possibility of fake accounts but at this scale, likely hundreds of millions, is it going to be a big difference?

I feel like the percentage isn't that important, it's more the fact that you're not even allowed to direct users to your own website or payment processor to have them sign up. I think changing that tiny rule as a starting point would go a long way.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#744

Post by thatguy0900 »

hrktb wrote: post #728
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> It is the user's property from then on I guess that's what's going to change more and more in our future. Just like apps/programs, movies, books, music tracks were our properties.

Most people already lease phones, to them it wouldn't be that big of a change to just say you can only rent them

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#745

Post by mobilemidget »

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

afaik google kicked them out of the store too.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/8/13/21368079/for...

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#746

Post by grenoire »

gwd wrote: post #722
grenoire wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The android ecosystem and OEM's lack of support for older phones (for one) is something that is 'forcing' me to enter their walled garden. I can't, also as a customer, ignore that Apple has done a lot of things very well, but that doesn't at all stop me from also complaining about their bad practices.

Don't you think these things may have some relationship to each other? All the work Apple does has to be paid for somehow; and realistically, in a for-profit company like Apple, has to be paid for in a way that will generate not just barely enough to pay for itself, but has to be paid for in a way that will generate lots of profits. Google makes money off of advertising. Apple makes money, in part, off of taxing apps…

I understand where your arguments come from, and I do agree to the fundamental economics of it.

It all holds well too, until you realise, however, that Apple is sitting on 200 billion dollars in cash.

Also: Epic did actually give an option to pay less for their microtransactions if you paid them directly, and were about to refund people for their transactions in the past month for the Apple tax itself. Their rebellion is the main reason Apple retaliated like this.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#747

Post by longtermdd »

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

You sound like a pissed 8-year-old who missed to invest in Apple :D

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#748

Post by hijklmno »

pferde wrote: post #738
anilakar wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uninformed consumers will normalize the abusive behavior and pricing by buying the product. Mocking and complaining about unacceptable business practices is everyone's right and responsibility.

By all means, yes, mock away and raise awareness. That's good, it helps. But I know too many people who are very vocal about how Apple is bad and how they should be stopped, and yet these people keep buying a new iThing every year.

Do you think defending bad practices and stereotyping is going to change anything?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#749

Post by eqtn »

ksolanki wrote: post #683

There is a potential solution: how about an app like fortnite to charge the users 30% more and be transparent about it if they use the App Store to buy? Is that against the App Store TOS? There has to be a way for the costs to be made transparent so users can make an informed choice. It doesn’t have to be these large lawsuits?

That is against TOS.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#750

Post by thirdsun »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #498
wheelie_boy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

I'm using Windows, OS X and Linux for 30+ years, didn't have a virus or a malware or anything else. The last time I had a virus was on my Amiga which I got at a copy party in the Netherlands. I think it is perfectly fine that you want the security from the Apple store and pay 30% on top for this, but why should I pay those 30%? It's not some kind of insurance that works better the more people take it.

> I'm using Windows, OS X and Linux for 30+ years, didn't have a virus or a malware or anything else.

Sure, neither did I, but Apple also has to provide a secure platform to my dad, my grandparents or any other non-tech-savvy person that will wreak havoc on any fresh Windows installation in record time.

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