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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#741

Post by hamax »

return0 wrote: post #705
hamax wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One side is for freedom of speech, the other side is for controlling what you can say. There was just one candidate in this election that wants to control what you can say. And it wasn't Hillary. “We’re going to open up those libel laws. So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace, or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win…

Re: libel laws, europe has much much stricter libel laws than US, i don't think they are controlling what we say.

I'm not against stricter libel laws. I think speech should have limitations. And not just in cases of libel.

But I also don't think that liberals and "SJW" are controlling what we say.

I was just trying to point out the double standard in the post I was addressing.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#742

Post by CoryG89 »

AJ007 wrote: post #667
meritt wrote: post #21

This was obvious from the RNC speech and further reinforced when Thiel donated $1M to Trump. A contrarian bet, sure, but $1M is a pretty small price to pay to have a 50/50 shot at CTO of the USA. I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. I had very negative feelings about Thiel, and those were magnified…

Here is what I said 25 days ago: > I think Thiel is hedging for both himself and as a proxy for Facebook. If Trump wins, Facebook gets the most favored corporation status currently awarded to Google. If Trump loses, Thiel perhaps assumes everyone will forget soon enough and Zuckerberg can diss-avow any Facebook connection. In retrospect, the one thing I think I was wrong about were the odds. I thought it was a long s…

I am no fan of the Clintons. Personally, during my lifetime, Obama is the only president I halfway respected, with his stance on state surveillance being a notable exception. I think there is a small amount of corruption with Hillary, as I believe is true of most politicians. However, given a choice between Hillary and Trump, for me it's no contest.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump has the potential to do some good. I am still unsure how much of his campaign he actually believes or intends to do. Term limits, I think, are probably a good thing, though also probably a long shot. If he keeps his word on not being able to be bought, that will be good. More non-professional politicians in government is probably a good thing in general.

That said, because of Trump you can almost certainly kiss goodbye: climate/renewable energy science, net neutrality, Roe v. Wade, higher minimum wage, etc. You can bet that soon the official language/religion of the US will be English and Christianity respectively. Nuclear weapons will almost certainly go back into production and military spending in general will skyrocket, while education funding continues to shrink.

It would take a hell of a lot of corruption from Hillary to get me to vote for any of that.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#743

Post by Mikeb85 »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #685
chronic6l wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think someone in debt would be smart enough to prod half the country as sheep into voting for him? Ha. America got trolled and was given the middle finger. We get it, you're upset. But listen to what the Democrat thought leaders are saying: stop dividing the country with your continued rhetoric in your comment. - Software engineer at Google in Mountain View, California

Trump has been bankrupt four times and relies heavily on debt to finance his real estate ventures. It's well documented that he took on hundreds of millions of debt in the form of "junk bonds" (so called because of the high risk of default and the resulting high interest rate - 14%) in order to pay for his casinos in Atlantic city, for example. He defaulted on many of those obligations, in some cases ultimately payin…

> Several of Trump's corporations have been bankrupt 4 times...

FTFY.

> relies heavily on debt to finance his real estate ventures

Real estate has high start-up costs but holds lots of value. Debt is the perfect vehicle to finance real estate, ever wonder why most people take out mortgages to buy homes, but give up equity to fund tech start-ups? You use the investment vehicle that makes sense for the type of business.

> It's well documented that he took on hundreds of millions of debt in the form of "junk bonds" (so called because of the high risk of default and the resulting high interest rate - 14%) in order to pay for his casinos in Atlantic city, for example.

Of course, casinos are high risk. Bond rates depend on risk. Also, most business debt requires a higher rate than say, sovereign debt.

> it appears at least one of his properties in NY has been modestly successful in recent years - but that property had well below $5 million in profit in 2014 and was losing money before that.

And? With real estate you don't need profit, you just need to build equity.

Tl;dr: Real estate isn't like other businesses, it has its own set of rules, accounting and financial practices, etc... Just like tech companies are different from factories which are different from restaurants, real estate is (gasp) different...

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#744

Post by lorenzhs »

mch82 wrote: post #648
masondixon wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would never try to ban any use of language. Its more like advice. We say: "Stop calling everything racist and sexist that is not racist or sexist because you are missing the real underlying issues. We want everyone to be happy just like you do, but we think your method is flawed." Then we win the election because you missed the point. This is why you will find such exuberant Trump supporters. There are many tears…

Muslims often say: "Stop calling all of us terrorists and stop saying Islam encourages terrorism because you are missing the real underlying issues. We want everyone to be happy just like you do, but we think your understanding of terrorism is flawed." Can you recognize the parallel between your statement and the one I've paraphrased above?

I don't think that's a good comparison. The vast majority of Muslims don't support terrorist organisations. That's why guilt by association, as pushed by people like Trump, is so harmful here.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#746

Post by masondixon »

peterclary wrote: post #707
masondixon wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the right has changed. 10 years ago it was all anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, super religious, anti-healthcare. I always use to say "I could never vote for the Republicans because of this". So I support most the left-wing policies. But mostly it is a vote against the progressive movement, and the Bernie faction. And corruption is the ultimate destructive force in politics and the Clinton's oozed it. I thin…

I think the Dems are a long, long way away from anything which vaguely passes for communisim. They're almost as capitalist as the Republicans, but - I think - more protections for equality. The problem is that Capitalism doesn't care about people. It is a system, and the worth of commodities and even people is determined by the market. People lose their jobs because either automation can replace them, or the job can…

> I think the Dems are a long, long way away from anything which vaguely passes for communisim.

Yes Dems are not communism at all. I am talking about Progressives and Bernie ppl. The next primaries will see if this faction takes over.

> What's your proposal for people who can't get jobs because there aren't enough of them?

I'm not sure, but I like the idea of basic income.

The side effects have to be addressed though.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#747

Post by BurningFrog »

notahacker wrote: post #690
BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

I don't think we can assume that just because somebody accepts a job working for the President necessarily means they necessarily condone the tone of his campaign or ever judged him to be a good choice for president. They can of course be judged on how they influence and shape policy proposals, and their participation in the process might well be much better or much worse than a principled boycott. Peter Thiel is not…

You can definitely judge him for supporting the campaign.

But do you judge him even more for pitching in after the election? As an admirer of Thiel and... the opposite of Trump, I find the whole thing confusing, but I'm definitely glad to have a sharp voice outside the Christie/Gingrich/Guiliani-axis involved.

Thiel is not some random rich fat cat who buys an ambassadorship. He's an extremely capable and accomplished man, and to me it looks like he's the one doing Trump a favor, not the other way around.

I realize reasonable people can differ on that part :)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#748

Post by Jtsummers »

lightcatcher wrote: post #734
Jtsummers wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Seems a bit strong to tell someone what they can and can't say. 2) He didn't get half the country to vote for him. It looks like around 55-60% of voters turned out this year (the whole tally isn't calculated yet). Of those, he got less than 50% (as Clinton got more votes than him). So at best he seems to have gotten around 30% of the voters to vote for him. Not everyone is a voter (age, other disqualifying factors…

> So at best he seems to have gotten around 30% of the voters to vote for him. What do you mean by this exactly? Trump lost the popular election with 47.5% support to Clinton's 47.7%. How did you come up with the "around 30%" figure?

Assuming 60% voter turnout (55-60% based on tallies at the time I wrote that, so 60% is the most optimistic/generous view). With 47.5% of that 60%, that puts him at around 28.5% of all potential voters voting for him. Near enough to 30% for my back of the envelope calculations. I did neglect the third-party candidates' percentages when I made that estimate, though.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#749

Post by city41 »

jtcond13 wrote: post #678
BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

Setting aside the implication that Thiel is "good people", this is totally wrong. They will suffer guilt by association in a quite literal way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_Seven

I think the point is they shouldn't suffer the guilt, not that they won't.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#750

Post by rubberstamp »

prairiedogg wrote: post #617
masondixon wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how anyone could feel comfortable with him as commander in chief I understand what you are saying here. He struggles to speak eloquently, and does not have a statesman-like persona. He is no traditional president. But look at the last 15 years of foreign policy from "statesmen". We had two wars, Obama missed seeing the rise of ISIS, Syria is a humanitarian nightmare, we had a huge financial crash, and terrorism is…

Hi masondixon! > But look at the last 15 years of foreign policy from "statesmen". We had two wars, Obama missed seeing the rise of ISIS, Syria is a humanitarian nightmare, we had a huge financial crash, and terrorism is on the rise. So is your argument that "statesmen" have failed to avoid crisis, therefore someone who is not a "statesman" will be able to better avoid crisis? Would it be fair then to say that becaus…

Hi prairiedogg, Well this thread is basically nitpicking each other. Let me tell you one thing. If you are a citizen of USA, you could run for president and be one as long as you are win a majority in a majority of states. Now, if you are interested in politics you, like me, would be following political decisions from a variety of sources and try to analyze it(see if its truth and try to understand if its fair to the citizens and such). You don't have to necessarily be a traditional politician/statesman(sad thing is most traditional politicians only cares about themselves and is more interested in coming across as having done something. Ideally they would do nothing and just get credit for doing all the good). My argument is you are as good as any statesman so long as you have a working brain. Be rational, have a willingness to find a solution for general problems faced by having conversation affected and actually do what is necessary to correct it. Make a level playing field for everyone so that everyone can actually live a good life instead of letting greed run amok. I do not like career politicians who are in politics just so in hopes of wielding power than to actually use it responsibly, but no, most "statesman" have no willings to study problems and find solutions, and pays a lobbyist to find a solution who has no incentives to come up with even a remotely correct solution. They do that because people are not paying much attention to what they do and they get away with it as injustices done to them would be mostly forgotten/drowned within a week in all the noise.
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