Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#731

Post by golergka » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 9:48 AM UTC

comrh wrote: post #627

golergka wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the user base harassed her. Part of the user base raised valid concerns about her performance as CEO in a reasonable, well-argued manner. Part of the user base did both. Why do people here (in this HN thread) tend to pretend it's either one or the other? When you're speaking about a big amount of people, pretending like they all behave the same way is never a good representation of a situation.

> Part of the user base did both. Wait, what? You can raise "reasonable" concerns while harassing someone? Harassment makes raising "valid concerns" not well-argued or reasonable.

> You can raise "reasonable" concerns while harassing someone?

Yep. You can write two paragraphs of well-articulated critique and then write something like "this bitch should die and rot in hell" in the end.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#732

Post by golergka » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 9:48 AM UTC

morbius wrote: post #569

golergka wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's certainly a white fraternity feel in a lot of reddits, so I can imagine how people can feel disconnect to it. But /r/shitredditsays, well... I was subscribed to it for some time, and the posts themselves do a good job at noticing really bad behaviour on reddit sometimes — but then I discovered the comments there, and I must say, it feels like half of the users of this sub are trolls who pretend to be THE wors…

The SRS sidebar makes it pretty clear that the whole SJW façade is exactly that: a façade. They obviously have legitimate complaints but hyperbolise everything to poke fun at it.

That doesn't make it any better.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#733

Post by thelamest » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 9:49 AM UTC

Eupolemos wrote: post #709

ketralnis wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech If we were talking about what's legal to publish in your own newspaper, I agree. If we're talking about what's appropriate to force others to view by brigading with a small number of people to take over a website to use it as its own platform to harass its CEO, I disagree.

I absolutely agree with you. Free Speech is not a thing on private boards or sites on the internet. Moderation is a good thing if you want a healthy online environment and conversation. That said, I think the moderation Pao symbolised on Reddit as a whole was a very wrong move. The Community certainly did. All the subreddits are individually moderated and the subreddits are opt-in; there's very little need for an ove…

> the agenda used to rule the masses by fear and security > the wild west of the interwebs > clamp down on everything

This is, joking or not, way out of proportion to what happened, which is, a single harassment-focused group was disbanded.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#734

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 9:51 AM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #468

sbilstein wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm so disappointed that Reddit's management allowed such a crappy culture to evolve in their forums for so long. I remember signing on in 2010 and just feeling really uncomfortable browsing any of the major subreddits. Why did it take so long to deal with characters like violentacrez?

> Why did it take so long to deal with characters like violentacrez? The admins asked violentacrez to help with the /r/creepshots. Later history got rewritten to say that he had created it, maybe to throw him under the bus.

[deleted]

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#735

Post by thelamest » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 9:58 AM UTC

albinofrenchy wrote: post #607

vehementi wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevermind misogyny etc., you're pointing to two incidents of unknown magnitude (because you lack the data internal to the company) among an unknown number of other things she's handled and you claim she's failed as a CEO? That is ridiculously uninformed.

Just because you don't have internal proprietary data doesn't mean you cant have a rational opinion on the matter. That is a ridiculous standard. The Victoria thing was a monumental cluster fuck in one of the most outward facing facets of the company.

> The Victoria thing was a monumental cluster fuck in one of the most outward facing facets of the company.

The main issue (no one to coordinate AMAs) was dealt with in a matter of hours without serious consequences. The "monumental cluster fuck" image is due to hundreds of people with an axe to grind who piled up on top it, mostly with unrelated "anti-SJW" complaints.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#736

Post by jsmthrowaway » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 10:10 AM UTC

Excavator wrote: post #571

vehementi wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, who is right, you or danielweber above?

In so far as I can remember he had good relations with many on the staff and even ended up with a special icon next to his username. The /r/SubredditDrama posts in regards to the incident are correct as I remember it: Part I - violentacrez: https://archive.is/7ygdr Part II - CreepShots: https://archive.is/8AVd8 Part 2 above ends with a link to VAs alleged last comments with an alt: http://i.imgur.com/E8fCA.png

The special icon was subreddit CSS added most likely by himself. Give me five minutes and a subreddit and I'll make your username 72px. The admins didn't bless him with a flag at any time.

It's a common meme that violentacrez was "special," had some kind of sway with the admins beyond any other moderator, received instruction from the admins that was unique and not the usual ban threats that many subs get in modmail, and so on. Most people who say these things heard it from someone else, because the actual story is that he was barely tolerated. He even says so himself in your linked thread.

I don't get the elevation of violentacrez to something special. I see it a lot (friendly with the admins! The admins asked him to help with creepshots! it's all over this thread) and I don't get it. He was a power mod. So are hundreds of others. There are a bunch of Reddit yarns that put the Kubrick lunar landing to shame; some of them are making an appearance in this thread.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#737

Post by thelamest » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 10:14 AM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #342

InclinedPlane wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AskScience is a default sub, I think, and they've survived alright. Interestingly, AskHistorians asked to not be a default sub-reddit for precisely the reasons you've given.

They have something like 500 moderators though so there is that.

They used to ruthlessly remove everything without an academic source, however interesting - these days I feel more and more fluff is getting through.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#738

Post by bsder » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 10:14 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #681

bsder wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe she deserved to be fired, maybe she was a terrible officer. Let the company make that decision. I dont like tho mob rule aspect to her stepping down. Her job was to preside over that mob. And apparently to monetize it. Pissing off that mob means she failed at her job . In addition, not understanding that you are firing a key employee shows a dramatic level of ignorance. Reddit has so few employees that even a…

That's all good -fine. If she did wrong, let the company deal with it. They hired her. But here she's been left out to dry. Totally different from Toyota where an executive smuggled prescription drugs into Japan[1] and the company stood by her --she stepped down once she understood the implications of her transgression in the eyes of Japanese law. But this is not the company firing her --it's the internet firing her.…

> Imagine managing a professional sports team by popular vote --it'd be nuts.

That's a really bad example to cite because managers and coaches quite often do get fired when the fans start getting too angry.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#739

Post by dvanduzer » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 10:25 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #695

nopenopeyep wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's irrelevant to my comment. However, I don't think you have any evidence to support your assumption. As I expected: downvoted for pointing out the truth. HN is terrible.

> By extension of holding Pao responsible for all actions taken under her charge, I declare PG to be sociopathic, if not outright evil. You don't think the downvotes are for this hyperbolic insult?

As a long time enthusiast of HN, and not a total shithead based on karma, I don't think there was anything hyperbolic in the original comment.

What is even slightly out of sorts about comparing Ellen Pao to Paul Graham?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#740

Post by __Joker » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 10:26 AM UTC

rustynails77 wrote: post #686

ryanmonroe wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These persons life aren't at risk because they can't express opinions, isn't that what is meant by FoS ? No

This thread is very interesting and I deeply appreciate the comments people are making, including FoS, fear to comment on FoS, etc. I personally respect freedom of speech, except hate. For example, HN strongly discourages attacking another member personally (eg. calling someone else idiot). I consider this a reasonable limit on freedom of speech, but concepts and opinions should be fully open for discussion (eg. pro/…

Thoughtful comments.

I have thought much on these as common person, neither in an academic setting nor who has to deal with these issue frequently.

Lot of time I would argue with myself why can't we have everybody have equal rights ? Why we need to specially fight for rights of women and be feminists or to project the issue to broader sense, where we talk or act about any group. Personally I believe that while the ideal case as it should be is equal rights for everybody, the problem is the inequality created by negative discrimination over the ages. It is more like we are trying to correct the wrong doing over the ages by believing that a positive discrimination for the groups would offset the historical prejudice.

These are personal thoughts. Please feel free to correct.