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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#731

Post by tropdrop »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #667
tropdrop wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is that you don't realize how much of that stuff from Walmart had artistic processes embedded into it along the production line. Did those shower curtains have a design? Did your sweater have a color and style? Probably so, but you never pay attention to how the world of "fine art" refracts into your daily life. If the products were cheap, it's likely someone unpaid is responsible for the design. S…

I do. My aunt is a pattern designer for ... Shower curtains at Walmart. Yup she works for a supply house in NY that designs shower curtains and her main customer is walmart So ironic I guess

Ha! That's amazing! Well I take it back for shower curtains (congrats to your aunt!). I do think the point still stands for Amazon sellers and Zara, but maybe I'm not giving Walmart enough credit.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#732

Post by nandomrumber »

closewith wrote: post #688
jmmcd wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point, but in response to GP (they should spend this money on houses for other poor people instead), the reduced reliance on other social welfare is totally legitimate to count.

I agree, but another commenter linked the cost-benefit analysis and it really is creative accounting to get to a positive net social return. The net fiscal cost after accounting for increase tax revenue and social protection savings was €72 MM. This was then offset to get to a positive net social gain by €80 MM in "wellbeing gains", as measured by a single survey question called the WELLBY test: > “Overall, how satis…

Wild!

They just totally made up[1] a number, tripled it, doubled that, and finally applied a multiplier before using it as the basis to support their preconceived… let’s not mince words: agenda.

1. That’s not very kind. I’m sure they didn’t “just make it up”. There’s bound to be an entire bureaucracy if not dedicated to, at least tasked with, conjuring up this sort of codswallop.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#733

Post by instig007 »

dns_snek wrote: post #689
instig007 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've always had the option to move somewhere far away from society where you could keep 100% of what you make on your own. Ah the good old "if you're homeless just buy a house" argument, only this time coming from the mentality of a statist.

This is in no way a "if you're homeless just buy a house" argument, it's a "you can't have it both ways, pick a lane and stick to it" argument. You want to unilaterally decide that you don't want to pay much tax on income, billionaires decide that they don't want to pay much tax on capital gains, yet both of you want to continue living in a society where you can buy cheap bread baked from flour milled from wheat grow…

Farms can be subsidized by people with money, the ones that you tell have to pay taxes to a proxy that spends it without accountability for the productivity of spending.

> You can't pick and choose parts of society that benefit you and opt out of your duties, that's not how society works.

of course I can, actually the more money I have the more options to exercise this ability are available to me. And there are no inherent duties to benefit someone you're not choosing to help, unless your society is cattle.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#734

Post by thepaulmcbride »

skywalqer wrote: post #313
thepaulmcbride wrote: post #229

It's wild to me how many people in the comments see any form of government doing anything as shady. It is doubly wild to me that using public funds to create art is seen as a bad thing.

You know that tax money is taken from people who could buy art with it? Or, maybe buy food and other things that they need even more than art at the moment.

In a society with a progressive tax system these things are overwhelmingly paid for by people who have vastly more money than they need to survive. Taxation when done correctly is a good thing.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#735

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jasonkester wrote: post #424
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day, that kid will decide that living in a crap shared apartment is getting a bit old and he'll grow some ambition, get a real job, and eventually start earning enough to help sponsor the next round of deadbeats. Wow! You’re optimistic! The data shows that having at least one patent on welfare is a strong predictor that a child will grow up to spend their life on welfare. Having both parents on welfare almost g…

The idea is to give people enough of a safety net that they don't starve to death. But really, it's kinda crap to live in a shared apartment with a bunch of broke college students, living off giant bags of potatoes. Most of us have done that, and now that we can afford not to, we don't. I'm sure there will be plenty of people with low enough ambition that they'll just stay there, subsisting. But I don't doubt they'd…

> But I don't doubt they'd be doing that in their mom's basement without

I’m 110% on board with that. It’s exactly one of the functions of family: communism is a perfectly function system of governance up to the level of the family.

> basic income

I’m 120% not on board with that. Men need to work, especially young men. WPPP - Work / Protect / Provide / Procreate. There is nothing worse for a society than idle young men with time and money in their hands.

I’m voting for Compulsory Service before I’m voting for Basic.

You work to earn your keep.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#736

Post by eucyclos »

nandomrumber wrote: post #677
eucyclos wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of great works created by the ruling classes of Athens or London at the height of both cultures ascendency is a major counterexample. Maybe we just had bad luck as to today's ruling class.

What does the past have to do with the present quagmire we find ourselves in? Surely no one would intentionally suggest we pay people to sit around with the hope they produce something anyone will be bothered to read (or whatever) in 2000 years.

Clearly Ireland does more than suggest it. If you think it's such a bad idea, maybe you can explain what salient factor is so different between the glorious past and the present quagmire.
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