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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#731

Post by N_Lens »

poilcn wrote: post #637
fhdkweig wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. I would also hope so, that is the entire point. The reason they are scrambling right now is because Starlink just shut off all of Russia. Because Starlink was so cheap and easy (and stable for the last 4 years of the war), a lot of people in Russia stopped using any other form of internet access. And while all of Europe is happy…

What are you talking about, 92% of Russian population has access to internet via landlines, the government subsidised building all the infustructre. The internet access is one of the cheapest in the world($5-10 per month for 100-500mbit/s), starlink with its $50-120 price tag is not affordable at all, ignoring the fact it doesn't even work here

Misinformation on HN? Well, I never!

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#732

Post by nottorp »

juliangmp wrote: post #716
nottorp wrote: post #702

Item one, that has been mentioned a lot of times in this discussion, is that a payment system that is independent of Visa/MC but is dependent on US based smartphones is about as useless. Item two is convenience. All these systems are "faster wire transfers". I don't really see the point of them when you can already do instant IBAN or even phone number based transfers. What they do not have is a line of credit backing…

I never understood the credit card thing Why would I want to spend money on loan by default? Why do the Americans do that all the time? What's the benefit?

Because it’s not my money but the banks money :)

Of course it only works to your advantage if you pay your credit cards in full every month.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#733

Post by ralfd »

fhdkweig wrote: post #528
varjag wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink was never available in Russia due to the sanctions regime. It's only use by Russians was via grey import terminals on the frontline in Ukraine (made possible due to complications of geofencing).

I guess I was misunderstanding. I thought that Starlink was deliberately ignoring the sanctions because they were able to shut it off real quick once Musk got that tweet https://x.com/sikorskiradek/status/2016221397396168995

You did misunderstand:

https://x.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/2017932529882296706

SpaceX worked with Ukraine together to register authorized Starlinks.

You obviously can’t simply geo-fence because the usage is not in Russia, but Russian troops using it in Ukraine.

And you can’t simply blacklist Russian use, because lots of devices with legitimate Ukrainian use cases were imported in privatly or by third party.

That is why legitimate Ukrainian devices must now be cumbersomely whitelisted.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#734

Post by Freak_NL »

jonathanlydall wrote: post #701
Freak_NL wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect to be able to use a creditcard in a physical shop in the Netherlands? Surely you knew? It works if the payment terminal has support for it, but since no Dutch person uses a creditcard outside of the internet, your kinda going against the grain.

Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? In South Africa where I live, anywhere that accepts cards accepts Visa and Mastercard. Outside of the "informal business" sector (e.g. tiny "businesses" like a roadside stall), card acceptance is so ubiquitous I don't carry cash anymore and it's very rarely an issue.

> Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this?

Because this is a thing in most of Europe. Most people don't own a creditcard, and those that do use it mostly for online purchases outside of the EU. I don't travel to another continent without looking up how to pay for things when I get there.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#735

Post by Hikikomori »

ericmay wrote: post #332
lostlogin wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a recent trip I skipped most the fees and got a good exchange rate with a Wise Card/account. I was slow to try it and it’s great.

Most Americans with the means to travel also have access to credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate. There's still an ongoing trick that some European businesses do where they'll try and get you to pay in dollars because they can arbitrarily set the exchange rate. It's obviously within "reason" but on the higher end for no purpose other tha…

There's also ATMs from Euronet that are conveniently placed in tourist areas that refuses to pay out Euro if you have a Euro card, you can only get money if you do an exchange and they do a 15% or so on top of a fixed rate. Also do things like charge for checking balance on account and don't tell you about before its done.

Its an American company.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#736

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

HunOL wrote: post #400
Ninn wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like sepa, this initiative can be forced by law and made open rather than tanken hostage by large cooperates, which may then exclude parts of the market.

Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law. Is Wero really a success? According to this article, in 2024 it processed over €7.5 billion. Polish BLIK, which is not even mentioned in the article and which has joined the EuroPA Alliance, processed €83 billion in 2024, with a 30% y/y increase in H1 2025. I understand that BLIK is much older, but it invested significant effort and money in marketing and promotion…

The EU consists of 27 different countries, with substantial practical barriers between their internal markets (even if it's one single market in theory). Often, only EU intervention can overcome those barriers. Otherwise, you end up with national fragmentation.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#737

Post by modo_mario »

ignoramous wrote: post #454
digiown wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> important security measure It's a security measure against the owner of the device , in other words, an attack. Would you be okay with me using a remote control to forcibly slow down your car so I can merge? Using attestation this way is fundamentally incompatible with ownership. If the bank wants some assurance about a device, they need to sell or issue one to me, like credit cards or point of sale machines, which…

> If the bank wants some assurance about a device, they need to sell or issue one to me, like credit cards or point of sale machines, which are explicitly not your property. In this example, a banking app is not making the entire Android device non functional when it refuses to work when remote attestation like Play Integrity fails.

I don't want to depend on google and android for EU mobile attestation or the like. I didn't think anyone wants government enforced duopolies.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#738

Post by wolvoleo »

Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #723
wolvoleo wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here it's more normal to save up for something and then buy it. Rather than buying on credit and then paying it off. It makes much more sense too. The financial system is built to stimulate that. For example if you'd buy a house you need to pay about 30% in cash and you can't loan that money somewhere else. This way you get people that know how to deal with money. And also the bank doesn't run a big risk if there's a…

This is not the only difference in the banking system; 25-year fixed-rate mortgages are also a feature that is rarely found elsewhere. The minimum 10% deposit is mainly there to cover taxes, which cannot really be recovered by the bank in the event of default.

It's not a 10% deposit though, it's 30% (so 10% taxes and 20% investment in the house)

And the fixed-rate mortgages are a good thing (though only when the rate is low hehe)

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#739

Post by lostlogin »

ericmay wrote: post #332
lostlogin wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a recent trip I skipped most the fees and got a good exchange rate with a Wise Card/account. I was slow to try it and it’s great.

Most Americans with the means to travel also have access to credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate. There's still an ongoing trick that some European businesses do where they'll try and get you to pay in dollars because they can arbitrarily set the exchange rate. It's obviously within "reason" but on the higher end for no purpose other tha…

> credit cards with no foreign transaction fees and by selecting "pay in local currency" you get the best exchange rate.

I’d be interested to compare their rates to Wise. The credit cards here in New Zealand don’t come close. However we regularly get screwed down here, and sadly it’s not just foreign companies that do it.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#740

Post by nolok »

thepancake wrote: post #717

One of their job ads ( https://careers.epicompany.eu/jobs/7187954-backend-engineer-... ) lists AWS among the tech stack, which you just gotta love considering that the whole project is about moving away from US infrastructure.

You either wait until you can do it all at once and never do anything, or you make progress step by step.

As an european, I'm for all the european tech stack funding projects going on, but I'm also glad we move on these other issues without waiting forever.

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