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Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#731

Post by hersko »

direwolf20 wrote: post #606
hersko wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No war is good, and starting an urban war you are obviously going to lose, and executing it over two years among an incredibly dense population is barbaric. I'm quite frankly quite appalled at the amount of apologists in this thread.

The war has lasted over 70 years.

Nope. Wars end. They always have. The Israeli war of independence is done. Just because you were on the losing side does not give you the perpetual right to attack Israel.

This is very basic stuff.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#732

Post by namlem »

epsters wrote: post #475
sepisoad wrote: post #391

An iranian expat here. I have been following the news closely, mostly getting my data from my friends in Iran before the internet shutdown and after it was (sort of) lifted. The death toll is way above this number, you have to consider the fact that Iran is a big country with many small cities, and in my city alone (which is very small and rarely has any protest going on) many people have died (i don’t have the exact…

Don't know about who exactly are the 'leftists' you are referring to but here's my take : Palestine : Dont send bombs. Send Aid. Lift blockade so Palestinians dont suffer. Iran : Dont send bombs. Send Aid. Lift sanctions so Iranian people dont suffer. Interested to hear your take regarding the same.

A lot of Iranians would probably love for us to send weapons. There are videos of Iranians celebrating the bombings of IRGC bases during the 12-day war.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#733

Post by busterarm »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #705
busterarm wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lifting the sanctions doesn't suddenly make their government, regulation or economy stable. Their biggest companies are all government-owned and famously corrupt and mismanaged. This is criticism given from most of the region when the topic of lifting sanctions comes up. Nothing I said is novel or extreme. In fact, we have direct evidence of what happens when those sanctions are lifted from when it was done under the…

> Lifting the sanctions doesn't suddenly make their government, regulation or economy stable True we only sanction them because it's funny. I don't really care what descent you are, anyone can have a bad opinion of American foreign policy. There are tons of people right now in America who are Iranian that are screaming for a crazy monarch to take power.

It's fun to be reminded boards like this can have extremists that think they're in the majority.

Sanctions against Iran are imposed by the United Nations (also the US, UK and EU). That means that UN member states think that sanctions against Iran are politically palatable. It's definitionally mainstream opinion that Iran should be sanctioned.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#734

Post by tptacek »

thisislife2 wrote: post #730
tptacek wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least that claim would parse? The issue isn't grammar!

Yes, it would and I have already shared some sources for the claim. So your assertions, without any supporting arguments for it, doesn't really sway me. Anyhow, I think we may have reached the limit of this kind of discussion on HN. If you want to explore this topic more, with others, https://politics.stackexchange.com/ would be a better place for this topic.

I think you're a bit confused here.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#735

Post by jopsen »

breppp wrote: post #690
throwaw12 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do protest the massacre, but I don't know what to expect as a result. What do I ask our gov. to do? Sanction them? To stop sending them weapons? Isolate them diplomatically? Surprisingly, all is done already

That's a pretty self defeating approach that in general is not compatible with protests of any kind (Israel included). I don't think there were any protests in the history of the world that couldn't have died using the logic of "nothing will change" As long as Iran has multiple countries it can sell its oil, there is still pressure to apply The real reasons there are no protests are in my opinion the same ones people…

Stopping Russian or Iranian oil shipping is pretty hard to do legally.

You are not convincing China to only source oil from western aligned nations.

We (Europe and US) can't even convince India.

Short of kinetic intervention. There isn't much to be done about Iran.

I doubt bombing Iran will make the protesters in Iran more successful or united.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#736

Post by jopsen »

epsters wrote: post #520
busterarm wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lifting sanctions just helps the mullahs flex their power on Iranian civilians. Lifted sanctions means more suffering for Iranian people and people abroad suffering from Iran-funded terrorist groups.

'To help the civillians we must starve them with total economic sanctions until they overthow their government' comes off as cynical and depraved (in hindsight of similar actions in Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan and also Iran ) and i no longer subscribe to it.

I'm not sure it's about helping get civilians.

Sanctions for Iran is about limiting their economic growth. So that they are less effective should they try to attack their neighbors.

Civilians in a dictatorship are probably not entirely with responsibility for the regime actions either.

Regimes can rarely survive without supporters.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#737

Post by mhb »

direwolf20 wrote: post #665
mhb wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran gave the weapons to the attackers.

I'm pretty sure Iran and Israel are enemies. Israel picked a fight with every single country in the region, to my knowledge, except for the other USA allies.

> Israel picked a fight

Right. By existing.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#738

Post by MisterTea »

devsda wrote: post #645
koalaman wrote: post #443

Iran and North Korea are evidence that with modern technology, and a ruthless enough autocracy, there is possibly no way out from under it. Technological progress only makes this problem worse. It should highlight the urgency for anybody who loves freedom, human rights, and democracy, to fight the swing towards authoritarianism in the 'free world', before there is no way back.

> with modern technology, and a ruthless enough autocracy, there is possibly no way out from under it. Technological progress only makes this problem worse. US may not have autocrats, but it does have ruthless enforcers of "law and order" with access to advanced weapons. Its probably safe to say thst whatever the stated reason is for the 2nd amendment, it is going to be difficult or impossible to meet its objective i…

All the second amendment fans I have met voted for the current regime. The vibes I get from many of them is they would absolutely love to cosplay military or police officers. The current regime loves painting their opponents as their enemy. I can easily imagine a future where gun toting regime supporters can be deputized to fight the "enemy within." They'll line up with enthusiasm to appease their ruler.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#739

Post by fragmede »

MisterTea wrote: post #738
devsda wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with modern technology, and a ruthless enough autocracy, there is possibly no way out from under it. Technological progress only makes this problem worse. US may not have autocrats, but it does have ruthless enforcers of "law and order" with access to advanced weapons. Its probably safe to say thst whatever the stated reason is for the 2nd amendment, it is going to be difficult or impossible to meet its objective i…

All the second amendment fans I have met voted for the current regime. The vibes I get from many of them is they would absolutely love to cosplay military or police officers. The current regime loves painting their opponents as their enemy. I can easily imagine a future where gun toting regime supporters can be deputized to fight the "enemy within." They'll line up with enthusiasm to appease their ruler.

So go meet more of them? Support for the second amendment definitely has fans of that nature, but not all of them.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#740

Post by dyauspitr »

tinco wrote: post #224
dyauspitr wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean doesn’t wear a headscarf?

Depends on what you want to hear. The Iranian family in my neighborhood whose father was a doctor fled after Islamist police cut their daughter to pieces in their own home for dressing inappropriately. That's the sort of non headscarf wearing Iranian elite you'll find with an opinion critical of the current regime. I don't know about ostentatious clothing.

Here you have women putting away men for 20 years with fake rape allegations. Last week a man committed suicide in a very public case where a woman falsely accused him of molestation on camera. Potayto potato. I’m going to be downvoted for this because it’s crass but there is truth in what I am saying.
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