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The United States withdraws from UNESCO

state.gov

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Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#731

Post by kennywinker »

dismalaf wrote: post #574
kennywinker wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUD designed to allow the genocide to continue. In short: gazans are all issued ID numbers at birth. The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud a…

> The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud and it passes. If you comment that they give us this data, surely you have a link to said data?

Surely you have the ability to google and find out for yourself. I don’t know if the data is available to the public, or just to journalists - but numerous reputable outlets have reported on this.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#732

Post by taylodl »

breppp wrote: post #694
taylodl wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the frustration with Hamas, but I think it's important to consider the reality on the ground. Most Palestinians in Gaza are unarmed, displaced, and struggling to survive under extreme conditions - with limited food, water, and medical care. Expecting them to rise up against a heavily armed and entrenched group like Hamas, especially while under bombardment, seems unrealistic. It's not that they don't wan…

Maybe, but the entire story we are seeing here is supposed to be Palestinian armed "resistance against an occupation", willing to fight against a stronger enemy for almost a century now. Why do you think in the at least six different armed groups in Gaza, there is not one ready to fight against the people who have effectively taken them hostages? Why in the around half of million extended families of the 100,000 peop…

Even if one believes the people of Gaza bear some responsibility for not overthrowing Hamas, that doesn't justify Israel for violating international humanitarian law. Collective punishment, targeting civilians, or blocking humanitarian aid are considered war crimes regardless of who governs a territory. Accountability for one party doesn't erase the legal and moral obligations of the other.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#733

Post by Daishiman »

laurent_du wrote: post #685
kennywinker wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone is starving, good luck finding someone who values a motorcycle more than food.

The obesity rate in Gaza is among the largest in the world. Let's stop pretending everyone is starving.

You are manufacturing lies.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#734

Post by pkilgore »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #387
pkilgore wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama didn't do anything (other than follow the law at the time): https://web.archive.org/web/20141224180231/https://foreignpo...

Sure, it was a Democrat president enforcing laws passed by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 1990 and 1994, under at least one Democrat president. There are no real "sides" when it comes to the U.S. and Israel. Every party bends the knee and kisses the wall. It’s one big club, and we’re not in it.

I never made inaccurate claims about those things!

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#735

Post by Hikikomori »

mola wrote: post #716
Hikikomori wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some US interference? Like funding the genocide? Pretty much all atrocities in the middle east can be traced back Europeans (mainly UK) carving up the area after ww1 and theirs and American imperialism since ww2. Israel is a project of this.

So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about…

Who has the right to exist in that area? The people that already lived there and their offspring, who are now refugees in Gaza. People do have the right to form their own states, but on land they already own legally and ethically, not when you colonize land already occupied by others.

I did not call for the end of Israel as a project, I do disagree with it's creation, considering how it turned out, especially since it was more or less the intention of Zionism as stated by it's founders.

I don't know how to solve it. But I do know that Israels actions since it was founded has worked against any kind of solution that is not a takeover of the area and the creation of their ethnostate.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#736

Post by breppp »

taylodl wrote: post #732
breppp wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but the entire story we are seeing here is supposed to be Palestinian armed "resistance against an occupation", willing to fight against a stronger enemy for almost a century now. Why do you think in the at least six different armed groups in Gaza, there is not one ready to fight against the people who have effectively taken them hostages? Why in the around half of million extended families of the 100,000 peop…

Even if one believes the people of Gaza bear some responsibility for not overthrowing Hamas, that doesn't justify Israel for violating international humanitarian law. Collective punishment, targeting civilians, or blocking humanitarian aid are considered war crimes regardless of who governs a territory. Accountability for one party doesn't erase the legal and moral obligations of the other.

Yes and that's why there's an effort to transfer food as I quoted above. However, I believe most arguments on this subject presuppose Palestinians as people without agency, Hamas as a non-Palestinian organization which is incidentally the government of Gaza

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#737

Post by wredcoll »

orblivion wrote: post #654
wredcoll wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there's one guy who says he's gonna try to slash it, I'll take that guy and hope for the best. Ok, and then what we actually got was elon musk's incompetent "doge" organization. This is literally my point, you have faith that there is this "bad cruft" and so you're willing to believe in, and give power to, incompetent idiots merely because they sound like they agree with your predetermined faith. It's frustratin…

I'm willing to throw a hail Mary. At this point yeah I'm not too impressed with their work.

Why, exactly, do you want to throw a hail mary? Are we about to fall off a cliff? Is there some kind of apocalypse waiting to destroy us if we don't do something drastic? Have we run out of other options?

The point I'm trying to make is that the federal government is not some kind of faceless opaque entity that can be treated as a foe to be defeated. It's a big ol' complicated conglomeration of thousands of groups made of of millions of people. Yes, that is hard to wrap your head around at once, but the information is out there. It's all public, you don't need to sneak around or bribe people or whatever, you can just look up who does what, when, why and for how much.

But actually doing that is hard work.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#738

Post by naniwaduni »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #465
DSingularity wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Israeli state was literally founded by terrorists. The leaders of those terrorist organizations were the first leaders of Israeli prime ministers and secretaries of war and so on.

Lots and lots of states were founded by terrorists. Like, my state (Ireland) was founded by a bunch of them. Our longest standing leader (DeValera) was involved in the 1916 rising and was only not executed because he was a US citizen and the Brits wanted the US to join WW1. Which is to say, that many many states have been founded by terrorists/freedom fighters. That's the norm, not the exception. Like, from the persp…

Almost all states can trace their founding to separatists if they so wish, but those are hard to usefully characterize as a subset of terrorists. The "norm" for secession before the 19th century was basically whatever passed for contemporary conventional warfare. Political terrorism only really becomes comparatively "effective" in response to modern era military disparities.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#739

Post by breppp »

impossiblefork wrote: post #561
breppp wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>This is enough under international law to prevent Israel from passing any aid, as it works to assist its enemy's forces. No. Article 54 of the additional protocol I ( https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/arti... ) only allows destruction of objects etc. necessary for the sustenance of the civilian population if they are solely used for the members of the armed forces. So even if Hamas stole the va…

I think you are quoting the wrong article, yours talk about attacking humanitarian aid, this one concerns free passage of food, is more relevant and it does not always apply

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/art...

this is complex however, https://lieber.westpoint.edu/siege-law/

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#740

Post by Daishiman »

dlubarov wrote: post #729
Daishiman wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how there's all this skepticism when literal first-person repots come out every day showing that things are much worse on the ground.

I don’t think anyone here is denying the suffering that’s occurring, but it’s still important to make sure we have our facts right.

The facts on the ground are extremely clear if you read what the aid agencies on the ground say instead of what gets passed off as news by American media.
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