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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#731

Post by FirmwareBurner »

esoterica wrote: post #721
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed. They're trailing 5 or so years behind Disney who also placed DEI over producing quality entertainment and their endless stream of flops reflects that. South Park even mocked them about that ("put a black chick in it and make her lame and gay"). Can't wait for Gemini and Google to flop as well since nob…

[flagged]

>Antman, Indiana Jones, Wish, all had white main characters,

DEI doesn't just affect main characters. See who were tasked to write and direct those movies and the DEI agendas they're forced to push. Clueless people with other flops under their belt, who got the projects out of DEI so Disney can look inclusive on social media.

And speaking of Indiana Jones, that flopped because they shoved a strong independent Girl Boss™ with an annoying personality to replace the beloved Indie as the main character who got sidelined in his own movie. It flopped because people go to an Indian Jones film to see Indie, not Fleabag. If you disrespect the fans they won't watch your movie.

Same stuff with Star Wars where Disney shoved Rey the super-powerful Girl Boss™ to replace Luke Skywalker the old and useless CIS white Jedi, and defeat all other evil white men in the movie by herself with her magic powers. Same with Marvel, Snow White, Little Mermaid and every other of Disneys trash remakes that are all about DEI instead of entertainment.

People go to see movies to get entertained. If you fail to entertain them because you wish instead to push DEI agendas on them, they won't pay for your content and you will lose money and ultimately your shareholders won't be happy and the free market will eventually correct this, so at least capitalism has some upsides.

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_k8cDLe-Kk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E6wJpu0A8E

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#732

Post by prepend »

djtriptych wrote: post #561
multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

is it even true that most software engineers are white and male? We're discarding indian and chinese engineers?

My experience over about 30 years is that 90% of engineers I’ve seen, including applicants, are male and 60% are Asian. I’d estimate I’ve encountered about 5,000 engineers. I wasn’t tallying so this includes whatever bias I have as a North American tech worker.

But most engineers are not white as far as I’ve experienced.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#733

Post by layer8 »

khokhol wrote: post #688
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Indeed. What's striking to me about this fiasco is (aside from the obvious haste with which this thing was shoved into production) that apparently the only way these geniuses can think of to de-bias these systems - is to throw more bias at them. For such a supposedly revolutionary advancement.

That struck me as well. While the training data is biased in various ways (like media in general are), it should however also contain enough information for the AI to be able to judge reasonably well what a less biased reality-reflecting balance would be. For example, it should know that there are male nurses, black politicians, etc., and represent that appropriately. Black Nazi soldiers are so far out that it sheds doubt on either the AI’s world model in the first place, or on the ability to apply controlled corrections with sufficient precision.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#734

Post by orand »

Osiris wrote: post #468

My suggestion is just to treat this like Safe Search. Have an options button. Add a diversity option that is on by default. Allow users to turn it off.

This is an ideological belief system which is on by default. Who should get to decide which ideology is on by default? And is having an option to turn that off sufficient to justify having one be the default? And once that has been normalized, do we allow different countries to demand different defaults, possibly with no off switch?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#735

Post by fassssst »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #731
esoterica wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Antman, Indiana Jones, Wish, all had white main characters, DEI doesn't just affect main characters. See who were tasked to write and direct those movies and the DEI agendas they're forced to push. Clueless people with other flops under their belt, who got the projects out of DEI so Disney can look inclusive on social media. And speaking of Indiana Jones, that flopped because they shoved a strong independent Girl Bo…

[flagged]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#736

Post by vidarh »

alpaca128 wrote: post #587
vidarh wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as someone far to the left of a US style "liberal", that is equally offensive and racist as only generating white people. Injecting fake diversity into situations where it is historically inaccurate is just as big a problem as erasing diversity where it exists. The Nazi example is stark, and perhaps too stark, in that spreading fake notions of what they look like seems ridiculous now, but there are more borderlin…

Google probably would have gotten a better response to this AI if they only inserted the "make it diverse" prompt clause in a random subset of images. If, say, 10% of nazi images returned a different ethnicity people might just call it a funny AI quirk, and at the same time it would guarantee a minimum level of diversity. And then write some PR like "all training data is affected by systemic racism so we tweaked it a…

We sort of agree, I think. Almost anything would be better than what they did, though I still think unless you explicitly ask for black nazis, you never ought to get nazis that aren't white, and at the same time, if you explicitly ask for white people, you ought to get them too, of course, given there are plenty of contexts where you will have only white people.

They ought to try to do something actually decent, but in the absence of that not doing the stupid shit they did would have been better.

What they've done both doesn't promote actual diversity, but also serves to ridicule the very notion of trying to address biases in a good way. They picked the crap attempt at an easy way out, and didn't manage to do even that properly.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#737

Post by prepend »

duxup wrote: post #729
anonymoushn wrote: post #269

It's amusing that the diversity-promoting prompt includes native Americans but excludes all other indigenous peoples.

Also the images are almost bizarrely stereotypical in my experence. The very specific background of each person is pretty clear. There's no 'in-between' or mixed race or background folks. It's so strange to look at.

You mean not all Native Americans wear headdresses everywhere?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#738

Post by 8f2ab37a-ed6c »

djtriptych wrote: post #561
multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

is it even true that most software engineers are white and male? We're discarding indian and chinese engineers?

You don't even have to guess, BLS exposes this data to the public, search for "software developer": https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#739

Post by kys_now »

aliasxneo wrote: post #544

Quite the cultural flame war in this thread. For me, the whole incident points to the critical importance of open models. A bit of speculation, but if AI is eventually intended to play a role in education, this sort of control would be a dream for historical revisionists. The classic battle of the thought police is now being extended to AI.

[flagged]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#740

Post by esoterica »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #731
esoterica wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Antman, Indiana Jones, Wish, all had white main characters, DEI doesn't just affect main characters. See who were tasked to write and direct those movies and the DEI agendas they're forced to push. Clueless people with other flops under their belt, who got the projects out of DEI so Disney can look inclusive on social media. And speaking of Indiana Jones, that flopped because they shoved a strong independent Girl Bo…

1. Most of the writers and directors on those movies were white men. 2. The notion that every time someone who isn’t a white man is hired to do something it’s an example of DEI is profoundly evil and stupid.
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