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The Tyranny of the Marginal User

nothinghuman.substack.com

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Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#731
post #215
post #13

> Reddit and Craigslist remain incredibly useful and valuable precisely because their software remains frozen in time Craigslist, sure, but Reddit has fallen off a cliff in terms of content quality since the whole API/3rd party apps debacle. More confirmation of the author's point, I suppose - valuing the marginal user and a broader base over what's already there.

I think the changes to Reddit suggest that we (the ones complaining about Reddit) are but a small minority. I really thought Reddit would revert their API changes after seeing the community response, but then... nothing happened. This was the event that made me realize how far I am disconnected from its average user. OP makes it seem like Reddit's users lose something when Reddit panders to a Marl. But I've observed…

I left Reddit after the API changed and Apollo died.

Last week I realized I still kept doing a bunch of reddit searches so I went back and tried the app.

The app is not that bad, hope the users stick around

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post reminds me of xenophobes who lament the arrival of immigrants. The immigrants are taking their jobs they are saying. Such a viewpoint can be countered with the imaginary scenario where you live in a country with only 2 people. How well are they doing? There are no stores to buy goodies from because who would create such a store for just 2 people? Perhaps an immigrant, could open a deli! When there are more…

> What do they do with that money? They spend it, which grows the economy. Our economy, not some other country's economy. I'm going to guess you've never spoken to anyone who is sending money back to their family in their original country with every paycheck. Not really the point of this conversation I guess but... yeah. It does happen more than you probably think. To the point where malls in my area have kiosks for…

I agree this happens a lot, but isn't this an area of financial life that is regulated, governed, and monitored by states today? I am not familiar with the policies or regulations in play here but this seems very addressable by the institutions and regulatory bodies that exist today in most (all?) countries. A solved problem, in other words.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#733
post #654
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, just make something that has a barrier to entry that will filter out non-nerds. From what I can tell Ham radio is basically just a chatroom with an entrance exam, for instance. Anything done in a constructed language like Esperanto would be another filter. There's nothing stopping anyone from making a website duplicating the original OKCupid method. It's just that it requires someone willing to say "no" to the…

What is Ham radio?

Welp, you're out of the club now.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#734
am i the only one who finds the vilifying of a "dumb user", of internet, of anything, if not just dumb in itself, then just a bit unethical. sorry guys, you are all just here on this planet along with dumb people. that's so sad, huh. sucks to be you.

making accessible things is actually good. not sure how that "dumbification of software for the marginal user" really aligns with what happens with apps. sometimes things don't get "dumber", or "simpler", or "easier to get even for the most basic of users". sometimes things just get worse. or get more complicated, internally (to exploit that user) or externally (dark patterns). simplification is really not the reason nor the 'evil thing-ruining machine' running behind the 'worsening of everything'. it might be the myriad of business processes, including a/b testing and orienting on whatever metrics analytics spit out, but like, despite almost pointing to that, this still diverts to 'things get simplified for the sake of the user' (boo hoo cutting features removing buttons). sure. but that's not the problem. the problem is the process that leads to, not just 'simplification' but whatever changes that happen.

>nearly all popular consumer software

is it really?

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones was the final nail, after that close to 100% of young adults are active online participants. The good thing is that things aren't getting worse at least, all the idiots are already online.

I suspect smartphones affect this in two ways. One is that they put the Internet in everybody's hands, literally. The other, though, is that by virtue of the interface, both display (tiny) and input (shitty, to put it mildly), the effective IQ of those participating, regardless of whatever it was initially , is severely penalised. When I'm typing at a keyboard, I can look at the words I'm typing, or the source I'm ty…

Everything you said + progressing hypermetropia for the last 25 years. When mobile screens got half decent sizes, I already hated the medium.

When people said that those text pages, around 2000, what was the name? WAP? were going to get everybody online, I was very skeptical. But of course, that was pre-iPhone.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#736
While this is an exceptionally cynical article it contains a truth that transcends app development.

Sometime during Covid I was in a massive supermarket that was nearly empty. I was in the deodorant aisle trying to choose from the approximately 100 brand and scent options. I wanted a deodorant without aluminum because I had read online that aluminum in deodorant causes yellow stains. This used to be hard, only one or two brands used to specialize in that. But on that day, my usual brand had a "new forumula!" that included aluminum. While looking at the packaging I realized the brand had been bought by one of the big boys, like a Unilever, Johnson&Johnson, whatever.

I scanned the new ingredient list of the product and then scanned the wall of 100+ brands and scents in front of me. I started picking a few at random and taking a look at their ingredients lists. Every single one was the same. I mean, they have brand names that are distinct, color schemes that are distinct, scents that are distinct. But it was a total illusion of choice. Those 100 options were really just 1 option. The only differentiator between them was packaging and scent.

I had a moment. The bright lights of the environment. The decor of the supermarket. The just audible music. When I squinted my eyes even the packaging of all of the brands blended into a single object. The entire environment was perfectly tuned to keep me unaware at the illusion of choice.

A few weeks later, basically the next time I went to buy deodorant, I noticed that several of the standard brands now offered a new choice, boldly printed on the deodorant caps: "Aluminum Free!". Apparently I am as easily understood and marketed to as anyone.

What I mean to say, the supermarket is just as tuned to make you Marl. 99.9% of the time I don't read the ingredient list of the products I buy. Whoever designs these environments knows this. They don't want to compete on actual differentiators. They want to lull your brain into a sleep and then present you with the one precise differentiator you care about. In my case, it was aluminum. When they realized that small no-name brands were succeeding by solving a problem the big brands created, they just bought them out and then re-packaged their existing products to highlight the differentiator.

In that moment I saw it all. How we are turning ourselves into robots. How I was not immune. In my humble opinion, tech brands are behind the curve on this one. Consumer product brands have been mining this space for decades, probably centuries.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious if you're all over 6' tall. I never had any luck on OKCupid.

That height fetish stuff is the domain of 5'0" white women. Basically message taller women and it doesn't matter.

This is where we could really use some empirical data to better understand these topics.

Comments already devolving into "Yes it matters!" "No it doesn't!" only citing anecdotal personal experience.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. It basically started as a dating site by Brooklyn grad students, for Brooklyn grad students. Grad students love writing essays. But if you want to expand, you have to face the fact that most people aren't grad students and don't love writing (or reading) essays. The trajectory to "just another dating app" was inevitable.

Look at us here on HN - we're discussing an essay we read about the decline of online dating. We're a self-selecting group too. Tonight's top story: a group of people who like reading essays decry that online dating no longer involves reading essays. I was nodding my head very hard at this essay, but this has given me something to chew on.

It means nerds (male and female) are now an underserved dating market, compared to when dating sites were in their infancy.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met my wife on OkCupid. The original format attracted a much smarter and more worldly crowd of women, to put it bluntly, than the other services. I exited the dating game before Tinder, but if OkCupid lost that quirky, artsy, college educated crowd in the chase to compete, that's a real shame.

The best dates I ever had came from a language exchange site that doesn't exist anymore. Seems to resonate with the "filter for brainy people" filter OKC seems to once have had.

Crazy idea: dating site that forces all users to communicate through a second language. How to ascertain it's legitimately a second language, and not their native language, would be the tricky part.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#740
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect smartphones affect this in two ways. One is that they put the Internet in everybody's hands, literally. The other, though, is that by virtue of the interface, both display (tiny) and input (shitty, to put it mildly), the effective IQ of those participating, regardless of whatever it was initially , is severely penalised. When I'm typing at a keyboard, I can look at the words I'm typing, or the source I'm ty…

Everything you said + progressing hypermetropia for the last 25 years. When mobile screens got half decent sizes, I already hated the medium. When people said that those text pages, around 2000, what was the name? WAP? were going to get everybody online, I was very skeptical. But of course, that was pre-iPhone.

I remember WAP, and had an early-phase smartphone with limited Web support (Palm Treo/Centro) which ... remains one of the better phones that I've had (hard keyboard among other features). You wouldn't want to read much on that, but as a quick on-the-go reference, particularly when travelling, it was handy.

One of my daily drivers is a large (13.3") e-ink tablet. Reading on that is actually a pleasure, though it's led me to another conclusion: scrolling sucks.

I much prefer reading paginated media, and if at all possible, fixed-layout media (e.g., PDFs rather than ePub) both because the same material stays in the same place on the same page regardless of other settings (I have a strongly spatial memory), and because the layout is usually just simply much better than what fluid-layouts achieve.

What really drives me nuts though is having to scroll on webpages. It's imprecise, half the time I'm clicking on something I'd not intended to, and it's much harder and less pleasing to read.

But size and print clarity alone make this a huge improvement over smartphone displays.

Sorry to hear about the eyesight issues.

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