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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#731

Post by BobbyJo »

stewx wrote: post #717
BobbyJo wrote: post #685

I think a good first step everyone can agree on to stop gun violence is: stop it's gamification. Almost every mass shooting in the last decade was someone looking for media attention and high score. And yet, every shooting is followed by detailed biography and a tally of bodies. Something as simple as a one month moratorium on information for anyone outside the community would probably work wonders, as the public eye…

How would you contain the spread of information? Maybe you could do so 30 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed. It is very difficult to contain information these days.

It's not about stopping it so much as not promoting it. Most people aren't going to spend time digging up information about rumored mas shootings. That alone would kill the fame and name recognition component.

I've had to dismiss and block more than one news organization from my feeds to avoid knowing the name of the most recent shooter. I'd settle for their information just not being shoved down my throat.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#732

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Thorentis wrote: post #202

I honestly think precedent and copy-cat syndrome are hugely to blame. "Shooting up a school" has just become synonymous with going on a shooting rampage. How do we go back from this? Even if we ban guns, how do we stop the determined from getting their hands on a gun so that they can shot up a school? It think it's incredibly tragic that we have gotten to the point where killing multiple primsry school aged children…

I agree. I'm in favor of the second amendment for a variety of reasons, but since it is clear that firearms are amplifying the casualties inflicted by crazy people and the US has a lot of crazy people, I'm open to restrictions that I think can have a tangible effect.

That said, it is treating the symptom instead of the cause. Our society is fundamentally rotten. We are growing increasingly irrational and violent, we are hating each other more and more, we believe in wild nonsense because we want to believe in it. People are lashing out, but where is all that anger coming from?

I think this single-minded focus on firearms any time these events happen is a distraction, a furthering of the divide between people who don't understand each other and increasingly have no desire to. The real issue is that people feel trapped, oppressed, caged, and helpless, and because they feel like that they act rashly. People do not shoot up schools, run over protesters, and storm government buildings because they feel like things are mostly ok. As long as we continue to pretend that our society as it is today is fundamentally sound we'll continue down this path.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#733

Post by refurb »

ImaCake wrote: post #650
r_c_a_d wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another outsider, I can remember seeing reports of mass shootings in the US every year or two for the last 30 years or so. Each time I thought "this time they have to do something" and yet the pattern continues. So to me it also seems "clear" that there isn't _enough_ will in the US to act on this.

Yes. There is even precedent in other western countries. Australia radically restricted its gun ownership laws after a single high profile massacre. This was done by a conservative government no less! The same one that followed the USA into Afghanistan and Iraq. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australi...

Australia still has more than half the guns it had prior to that legislation.

And still has regular shootings in Sydney due to gang violence.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#734

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

colechristensen wrote: post #224
Thorentis wrote: post #202

I honestly think precedent and copy-cat syndrome are hugely to blame. "Shooting up a school" has just become synonymous with going on a shooting rampage. How do we go back from this? Even if we ban guns, how do we stop the determined from getting their hands on a gun so that they can shot up a school? It think it's incredibly tragic that we have gotten to the point where killing multiple primsry school aged children…

We have to start by giving less attention to these events. We have to start by being kind to the people who need it most and are often the most difficult to be kind to. You can’t just create a way to think of people who do things as some sort of “other”, we are all human and capable of similar things given the wrong circumstances.

We have given relatively little attention to all the times someone has driven their car through protesters, but it still keeps happening.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#736

Post by barrenko »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #719
tcspence wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

How about because: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ... is no longer either a true or useful statement? I think I'm probably happy to toss the Third Amendment on a similar basis: No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a man…

The first sentence is and will always be true.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#737

Post by slothtrop »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #457
Glyptodon wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... You don't need a license to own or drive a car on your own property, I don't think. Or go through a background check to buy one. It's just that we have public roads, upon which it's difficult to hide a car while in use. Yet routinely many people drive unregistered and uninsured vehicles.

> Yet routinely many people drive unregistered and uninsured vehicles. Even on public roads, where it's illegal. It's almost like people don't obey the law when they don't want to.

Cops automatically scan plate info now. It's harder to get away with being unregistered in metropolitan areas. Source: was slow to switch out-of-State plates that were no longer registered, got stopped in the city.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#738

Post by THJr »

DeathArrow wrote: post #548
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #60

OK, I'm hoping for a nuanced and civil discussion, but here goes... America (where I live and was raised) does not like to parse numbers, when it comes to these things. Both "mass shootings" and "mental illness" are dividable into smaller chunks than their current definitions and need to be handled in different ways than a "winner take all" approach. "Mental Illness" is a broad spectrum and cannot be lumped into a gi…

>But, if you are looking at it from a preventative stand point, it's a completely different equation. These aren't going to be legally obtained, randomized violence, caused by mental illness. These are generally crimes of poverty, means and lack of opportunity. So someone is killing people because he is poor and needs money? Why doesn't he work instead?

In the U.S. this is often because someone can't work. When you're stuck in a poor area, job opportunities are extremely limited. Public transport is very limited, so you often can't get out of the immediate area to find a job, and most jobs are very restrictive about criminal history.

You can get something minor on your record, and be stuck out of work until you can get enough money to move closer to a place which will hire someone with a crime on their background check, which is now near impossible to do legally.

This situation can make one desperate enough to attempt crimes which can lead to murder, such as armed robbery.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#739

Post by bobkazamakis »

cout wrote: post #721
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #701

Step 1: repeal the Second Amendment. There's never going to be useful progress here until America unsticks from the idea that the right to arm yourself belongs in the same category as the right to free speech or due process.

How do you enforce that in the era of 3D printers and consumer grade CNCs?

the same way you enforce everything else? the idea isn't to make guns non-existent.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#740

Post by krisoft »

pc86 wrote: post #691
BobbyJo wrote: post #685

I think a good first step everyone can agree on to stop gun violence is: stop it's gamification. Almost every mass shooting in the last decade was someone looking for media attention and high score. And yet, every shooting is followed by detailed biography and a tally of bodies. Something as simple as a one month moratorium on information for anyone outside the community would probably work wonders, as the public eye…

Enforced by whom? What is the punishment if you break it? This is just not realistic suggestion.

There are norms the media choose to follow on their own accord.

Think for example how suicides are generally covered. Reputable organisations don't publish the details of the precise method, and they include a link/phone number to a help line for those who struggle themselves.

> What is the punishment if you break it?

The same as with most norms: Professional embarrassment, and loss of reputation among your peers.

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