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US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

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Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#731

Post by mulmen »

aqme28 wrote: post #682
captainmuon wrote: post #450

This is ridiculous. Why don't they make the regular time permanent? And if people want to have more light in the evening, then they just leave work earlier. Surely that is easier than permanent daylight savings time. I know people will say it's too hard to change habits and (clock) work hours, but with permanent DST you will have to change that anyway, when people realize how dark winter mornings will be. I predict a…

> I predict a lot of people will want to move school start to a later hour then. I'm a proponent of this regardless. Forcing teenagers to be awake at 6AM is not helpful.

But 6am is a made up construct. It's an artifact of the logistics of getting kids to school before the parents' working hours and accommodating those kids' after-school jobs.

If you move school an hour later then typical working hours also have to move an hour later and nothing actually changes.

Our children will say it is unnatural for teenagers to wake up at 7am.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#733

Post by imgabe »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #690
capital_guy wrote: post #679

I am extremely surprised at all the people who are against this, saying that "Making DST permanent forces people to wake up earlier." I am not sure I know a single person whose morning wake-up time is dictated by the rise of the sun. Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to. I am happy to have more sun after I get out of work. It was a breath of fresh air this week getting out of work and…

For folks with seasonal affective disorder, this makes winter even more hellacious. Timing of light and absence of light is critical - early morning light exposure greatly benefits people with SAD.

The light is going to arrive at the same time regardless of whether you call that time 6am or 7am.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#734

Post by [deleted] »

emtel wrote: post #686
capital_guy wrote: post #679

I am extremely surprised at all the people who are against this, saying that "Making DST permanent forces people to wake up earlier." I am not sure I know a single person whose morning wake-up time is dictated by the rise of the sun. Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to. I am happy to have more sun after I get out of work. It was a breath of fresh air this week getting out of work and…

> Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to. Uh, yes, that's the point - and many businesses and schools will stick to a consistent nominal time (like 8am) which will now be one hour earlier in real terms.

[deleted]

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#735

Post by beej71 »

mortenjorck wrote: post #670
captainmuon wrote: post #450

This is ridiculous. Why don't they make the regular time permanent? And if people want to have more light in the evening, then they just leave work earlier. Surely that is easier than permanent daylight savings time. I know people will say it's too hard to change habits and (clock) work hours, but with permanent DST you will have to change that anyway, when people realize how dark winter mornings will be. I predict a…

I see this as ultimately a conflict between morning people and non-morning-people. I am not a morning person, and so naturally I welcome this trading away of brighter winter mornings to get brighter winter evenings. But I recognize there are many, presumably yourself included, who prefer the opposite. I don't have a good solution to suit everyone, and I certainly don't want to gloat at having "won." If anything, perh…

I'm a morning person (I sleep from 9:30 to 5:30), but I generally like daylight saving time. If it's dark when I get up, I get to enjoy the sunrise, and I love wrapping up the day outdoors in the evening.

But I also don't have any kids in school, and I don't have a 9-5 job. Maybe that flexibility makes the difference.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#736

Post by mdavis6890 »

Bad idea.

TimeZones and DST are for humans and physical realities, such as the tilt of the earth and circadian rhythms. And they serve to address these things in a universal, coordinated way rather than asking each of us to change our schedules individually.

During DST, we all agree to start our days, open our business, and adjust our schedules one hour earlier, but without changing our individual clock times.

With DST all year long, can we choose to send our children to school at 9:30 instead of 8:30 during the winter? Should the school have a different winter schedule than a summer one? Or should we just wake up our young children well before dawn and drag them off?

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#737

Post by lxgr »

snek_case wrote: post #689
capital_guy wrote: post #679

I am extremely surprised at all the people who are against this, saying that "Making DST permanent forces people to wake up earlier." I am not sure I know a single person whose morning wake-up time is dictated by the rise of the sun. Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to. I am happy to have more sun after I get out of work. It was a breath of fresh air this week getting out of work and…

I think this is kind of a conflict between those who are morning people and those who aren't. Many morning people would prefer to have that sunlight in the morning. I'm not at all a morning person and I'd rather have that sunlight after work when I can actually benefit from it.

There's a third faction: People who believe that it should be possible for a society to agree on things just starting an hour earlier (or later) where it makes sense, all without literally touching a single clock.

Introducing a (permanent, i.e. unlike DST) offset to solar time just seems like a ridiculous solution to any real or perceived problem.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#740

Post by cwp »

capital_guy wrote: post #679

I am extremely surprised at all the people who are against this, saying that "Making DST permanent forces people to wake up earlier." I am not sure I know a single person whose morning wake-up time is dictated by the rise of the sun. Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to. I am happy to have more sun after I get out of work. It was a breath of fresh air this week getting out of work and…

Count me as one of those against it.

I'm all for not changing our clocks anymore, but DST is stupid. If you want to get up earlier and have more daylight in the evening, great, do that. If you want to get up later so it's not dark when you leave in the morning, sure, makes sense. And if you want to change your schedule as the year progresses to adapt to the seasons, I'm with you.

The real problem is that we have this weird idea that our whole society has to operate synchronously. And hey, I get it, some groups of people do have to coordinate with each other. An assembly line won't work if people show up whenever. But most people aren't in that situation and even that assembly line doesn't have to be synchronized with all the other assembly lines in the country. Heck, it might even be a good thing if we didn't all drive to work at the same time...

We have to agree on what time it is so that we can coordinate, and as long as we're doing that, let's agree on something that's not a lie. If we're going to meet at noon, the sun should be straight over head, damnit.

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