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Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#731

Post by recursive »

riotdash wrote: post #670
city41 wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a key point that is being missed here is most of the people excited about this probably run OSX, not Linux. OSX has long been the "'Linux' for people who don't really want to run Linux" (not really meant as an insult, I'm typing this from OSX right now). Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. FWIW, this excites me because it potentially means I can go from two machine…

"Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here." The big difference is that Apple actually doesn't f k their users in the ass. People always complain how Apple products are so expensive etc. but you know that's how they make money and they actually invest in to the privacy and security of their users (good example: the FBI case) I will happily keep on paying high price for the Apple…

Apple is pretty user-hostile. Moreso than MS in my estimation. Try changing the battery in your iphone, or getting music on it without using itunes.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#732

Post by nekkoru »

badminton1 wrote: post #730
nekkoru wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(...)one key difference is that you don't run Mac OS X as a server operating system or on the cloud. http://www.apple.com/osx/server/ It's actually a pretty decent server environment.

That's a valid point, but you cannot elastically provision 100 OS X servers machines on demand in the cloud.

I don't think anyone has tried it, but is there a reason why it couldn't be done?

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#733

Post by Quiark »

takeda wrote: post #233

Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…

Assuming that Microsoft _ever_ becomes relevant again.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#734

Post by jarcane »

ajdlinux wrote: post #719
badminton1 wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That same phenomenon sort of happens with WINE. Many software just suggests you: run it under WINE, so they just focus on Windows. Not that I am against WINE. I think it allows me to just ditch Windows entirely. I run StarCraft II on WINE 1.9 at a higher framerate than what Windows provides. That was probably the only reason I would use Windows for.

I doubt any game developer decides not to release a Linux version purely because "oh, Wine exists".

Mac game "developers" do. :(

Thanks to TransGaming and Cider, a lot of Mac "ports" are just a Windows executable running in their proprietary fork of Wine. To predictably awful result.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#735

Post by rkangel »

creshal wrote: post #725
adrianN wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you only drive old cars, because newer cars aren't really designed to let the user change anything. You always need to take them to a specialist shop.

And the specialist might have to take it to other specialists because the diagnostics and repair equipment is so outrageously proprietary and specific nowadays that only one shop per major city can afford it.

Which at least partly because have become much more complex things. Complex systems with many electronic and mechanical systems interacting need complex tools to debug.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#736

Post by akerro »

disagree1_ wrote: post #710
city41 wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a key point that is being missed here is most of the people excited about this probably run OSX, not Linux. OSX has long been the "'Linux' for people who don't really want to run Linux" (not really meant as an insult, I'm typing this from OSX right now). Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. FWIW, this excites me because it potentially means I can go from two machine…

> Apple is just as proprietary, commercial and anti-competitive as Microsoft here. I respectfully disagree. The OSX kernel XNU is open source, as are a ton of its components. That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees.

>That's huge in a lot of situations. Some things - not a lot, granted, but some, like FreeBSD's C++ stack and compiler - are even upstreamed back to mainstream open source projects by Apple employees.

^ Citation need.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#737

Post by rkangel »

ageofwant wrote: post #628
coldtea wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It amazes me that people will rag on linux because its "hard" and then build these elaborate Rube-Goldberg machines to avoid the most obvious solution. It amazes that people don't understand that one's usage patterns might be different, so "just use Ubuntu" wouldn't be applicable (e.g. UNIX savvy guy who appreciates the shells and userland, but nevertheless wants to do Windows .NET development, or work with native…

The "UNIX savvy guy" will just use Windows when he needs to, either in a VM, a Azure windows instance or his company provided laptop and call it a day. All the yakka spent on avoiding the obvious solutions to justify "usage patterns", should signal any half-aware dev that those precious patterns are broken.

Yes, I will "just use Windows" when all the dev tools for my embedded environment are only available for Windows.

And when I'm stuck on Windows for whatever reason, I'll be immensely grateful to be able to do that with a bash shell and all my normal configuration and tools.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#738

Post by recursive »

joeyh wrote: post #277

https://www.devever.net/~hl/windowsdefeat seems very relevant. Question to my mind is, are they going to manage to limit this to development and advanced users, or will whole applications that target windows start depending on the linux emulation to work?

You have to opt-in to the feature.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#739

Post by edwinyzh »

itsananderson wrote: post #294
skrebbel wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, getting node to work on windows is a pita? I know of no language runtime and ecosystem that has better cross-platform support than Node (hm ok maybe Java also). I develop solely on Windows (I just like it better) and virtually all of NPM just works on my box. Even stuff people never tested elsewhere than on their Macs, it just works. Express, webpack, mocha, phantomjs, it's really quite impressive if you ask me…

99% of the painful Node stuff on Windows comes down to native packages. To even compile, you have to install Visual Studio. Then you have to hope the module developer has a build definition that even works for Windows.

Correct! The last time I wanted to npm-install a CLI but it needs gyp, I'm not familiar with the node thingy and I gave up after several failed attemps including installing the VC++ runtime, Python, etc....

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#740

Post by creshal »

rkangel wrote: post #735
creshal wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the specialist might have to take it to other specialists because the diagnostics and repair equipment is so outrageously proprietary and specific nowadays that only one shop per major city can afford it.

Which at least partly because have become much more complex things. Complex systems with many electronic and mechanical systems interacting need complex tools to debug.

Only partly. There's no technical reason why you need to have 70 differently wired connectors to access the engine computer's UART port… and why they cost over a hundred dollars each.
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