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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#721

Post by TrappedInCorner »

garte wrote: post #671
TrappedInCorner wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to the fallacy of my argument you are hinting at, it truly is one of the difficulties. I think as a migrant your contribution should be to assimilate and assist with the country's interests. You must not be a freeloader. If the country wants to get rid of migrants, then thats it, they will stamp you out. Welcome to reality. In the meanwhile I will do my best, like everyone else should, to be a 'good migrant', whi…

From a logical standpoint there really is only one rational step you can take: you have to leave because you are a migrant. And that's exactly where all of this thinking falls apart: in an equal, democratic society no group should be able to decide who's a good or a bad citizen. There's only the laws of the country that should count and everyone has to obey. You should soften up your idea of "migration" because there…

No. I have to leave when they decide I have to leave. Generally migrants are not a problem, unless they cause a lot of problems (UK), or there are way too many of them even if they were so called good migrants (again UK). Even some of the most anti-immigration political parties in my country (ethno-fascist actually, not my opinion, it is their policy) are not saying 100% no to migrants, but they have to check a LOT of marks to be here.

I have to say, that not every country is the same. United States from an outsider perspective seems like you could come from anywhere and look like anyone, as long as you pleadge your allegiance to the flag and become and 'American' you will be accepted. This is probably because US has a short history, and it wasnt too long ago when it was literally all migrants.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#722

Post by account42 »

eqvinox wrote: post #486
xenonite wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn’t racism as Germans had the same skin color. Keep in mind that Germans aren’t stereotypical anymore. In Switzerland live over 41% migrants and children of migrants (just 8.4%). So the native Swiss are not just “surrounded” but greatly diminished.

Yeah, sure, it's nationalism instead of racism. Born on the wrong side of the Rhine? F right off. No better at all. Worse, arguably.

Yes, that's how nations work. Otherwise you end up paying for the world's social security while not collecting everyone's taxes.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#723

Post by tpm »

mike_hearn wrote: post #716
tpm wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only there are several studies like this: "These estimates suggest that by 2025, Brexit had reduced UK GDP by 6% to 8%" https://www.nber.org/papers/w34459

If you read them carefully, you'll find no such studies are using a valid methodology. It's not a hard question to answer either, just compare like with like.

If there are no valid studies, you can't say Britain didn't suffer any economic damage from leaving the EU, because you can't possibly know that.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#724

Post by rayiner »

khriss wrote: post #679
rayiner wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me where the “mediocre white men” are on this chart?: https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/med-1.png?x97... Are the “mediocre white men” the ones with a 27-29 MCAT/3.4-3.59 GPA, who have a 21% chance of admission to medical school whereas a hispanic student in that same range has a 61% chance? Are those the “mediocre white men” you’re talking about? > The companies get … more diverse perspectiv…

> Can you show me where the “mediocre white men” are on this chart? I think you will find that they tend to be at home, according to this graph https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/2023-demograp... . From the report 'Specifically, Black males received sentences 13.4 percent longer, and Hispanic males received sentences 11.2 percent longer, than White males' So, based on your own logic, you would argue for h…

> So, based on your own logic, you would argue for higher prison sentences for whites?

Yes. Your report shows that white men are more often given probation, which explains much of the difference. That should stop. Throw those fuckers in prison.

Your report also shows that black women received 6% shorter sentences than white women. So there seems to be more at work here than black versus white. We need less discretion in sentencing across the board.

> It's all well and good to whine about 'discrimination' in one narrow area, but few have the courage to oppose discrimination when it benefits them.

That describes people who point to sentencing disparities to justify affirmative discrimination in school admissions and employment.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#725

Post by 6510 »

I read a hilarious comment from a Swish once, he was confused how we could take in so many migrants from all over the world. He was all for helping people, he could see the economic benefits, he understood that the native population was aging. What he didn't get was how we were going to preserve the familiar country we grew up in. The new people won't love your country the way you do. They will see it for what it is, a strange collection of cultural weirdness and they will struggle leaving their own cultural weirdness behind. Why would they? His final point, what if there is a war? If you were a migrant, would you die for your new country or just move on to greener pastures?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#726

Post by amunozo »

autoexec wrote: post #506
bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

It seems like a good idea to start worrying about population long before it feels overcrowded and there's no room left on the trains. The issue isn't about how much open space there is to stuff people into, but about how many people an area can sustainably support. I'm not sure that 10 million is a good target to aim for, but you sure don't want to wait until your quality of life declines before you start making plan…

Or you can rather prepare housing and infrastructure for the increase of population instead of blaming foreigners and risk all bilateral agreements with EU in which Switzerland's economy depend on.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#727

Post by amunozo »

mike_hearn wrote: post #654
eqvinox wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is the place it is due to the conditions it has grown in. Take away the EU and Switzerland loses a significant part of their economic power, which is needed to sustain being the place it is. Just like Brexit.

[flagged]

It's also a much smaller economy and Switzerland, unlike the UK, is landlocked and surrounded by EU countries. More than half of its exports go to the EU. Switzerland needs the EU more than the EU needs Switzerland.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#728

Post by amunozo »

People are missing the point. The problem of capping the population is that this would end all bilateral agreements with the EU, as these depend on the free movement of people, which would severely damage the economy of a country that, even rich, it's really small, landlocked, surrounded by EU countries and dependent on their economy.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#729

Post by mike_hearn »

tpm wrote: post #723
mike_hearn wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read them carefully, you'll find no such studies are using a valid methodology. It's not a hard question to answer either, just compare like with like.

If there are no valid studies, you can't say Britain didn't suffer any economic damage from leaving the EU, because you can't possibly know that.

Only if you accept the strange premise that nothing is knowable unless some academic formats it in a PDF?

It's easy to find things out without needing a study. Just look at the data yourself. It's not telling a complex story.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#730

Post by account42 »

egorfine wrote: post #672
kakacik wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should check Geneva then - they are building apartment buildings like crazy in past 5 years. Too much if you ask me - in very center, almost every small park or green spot is now 6 story concrete building. Only the biggest protected parks are untouched. City is visibly and permanently degrading into concrete field. Weirdly schizophrenic move - they try to keep pushing bike lanes everywhere, even where not safe to…

Geneva had an extreme shortage of housing while there were plots of land perfectly suitable for construction but older people willing to sacrifice their kids' future for the sake of today's comfort and for one more year of ignoring the world around them. This problem is no unique to Geneva though.

Reducing parcel sizes and similar development decreases not only your own comfort but also those of people living there in the future.
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