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Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#721

Post by Kennel5527 »

mrtksn wrote: post #461
sepisoad wrote: post #391

An iranian expat here. I have been following the news closely, mostly getting my data from my friends in Iran before the internet shutdown and after it was (sort of) lifted. The death toll is way above this number, you have to consider the fact that Iran is a big country with many small cities, and in my city alone (which is very small and rarely has any protest going on) many people have died (i don’t have the exact…

> It’s a shame that all those activist that would shred themselves for Palestine are absolutely quite about Iran That's not a fair position, those people don't have the duty to make every wrong right. As an Iranian expat how much of your time and money did you invest in fixing Iran? Apparently there are 2 million Iranians in US and just over a million in Europe and a million more in the rest of the world. What did th…

Unsure of your background here. Though the way you refer to the Iranian diaspora hints at gaps I would fill before contributing further to a discussion pointing back the finger at those who are victims in this case, most of the time still with people back in Iran, and who risk even just going to a protest as they could easily be profiled and effectively ban themselves from ever returning back home, if not altogether risking the lives of people back home.

The level of bravery of the Iranians inside the country is off scale, that of those among the Diaspora participating in protests is still huge given the risk. Those not participating too much (very rare!) still millions of times more justifiable than that of people who have nothing to fear from manifesting freely and safely.

The calculated cost/benefit calculation that some leftists (me one of them generally - but not in this case) are doing, is just using the wrong calibration weights, “hate for a specific faction/team” rather than just “love for humanity and justice” (which I assume people won’t argue is a leftist pillar).

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#722

Post by tptacek »

thisislife2 wrote: post #719
tptacek wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote "Palestine is a settler-colony of Israel". Nobody on either side of the conflict believes that. Your response here is a non sequitur.

Are you talking about grammar? Would you prefer that I write Israel is a settler-colonial state ?

At least that claim would parse? The issue isn't grammar!

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#723

Post by Kennel5527 »

darrenf wrote: post #351
ripped_britches wrote: post #298

Legitimate question - why am I not seeing this in the news? This is horrifying but where is the coverage?

The BBC have been covering it in the UK. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cjnwl8q4ggwt

True, but the level of coverage from the BBC has been abysmal compared to other similar conflicts in the past years, Ukraine and Gaza obviously come to mind.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#724

Post by nickff »

direwolf20 wrote: post #720
nickff wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you're only going to count modern states, the only previous one to occupy that area was the Ottoman Empire. After that, there was a British Mandate, but that wasn't a state. Modern states only started after the Treaty of Westphalia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia

Does the modern Israel state have continuity from the Ottoman empire?

That really depends on what you mean by ‘continuity’ and your view of the British Mandate. I could imagine the case being made either way.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#725

Post by thisislife2 »

nickff wrote: post #716
thisislife2 wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what country's legal system you referring to. My broad understanding is that most Islamic empires allowed the minorities to retain their own personal laws on some legal matters (marriage, divorce, inheritance etc) as Sharia laws were largely Islamic, for muslims. From today's modern perspective many things that was done by many former empires of the past would be problematic. Like I said, you will only…

From the linked Wiki: “Restrictions included residency in segregated quarters, obligation to wear distinctive clothing, public subservience to Muslims, prohibitions against proselytizing and against marrying Muslim women, and limited access to the legal system (the testimony of a Jew did not count if contradicted by that of a Muslim). Dhimmi had to pay a special poll tax (the jizya), which exempted them from military…

On a slight tangent, I can see how many of these things - segregated quarters, obligation to wear distinctive dress, prohibitions against proselytizing and against inter-religious marriage etc. - could all have been demanded by the minority community themselves in those times, to protect themselves from "majoritarianism". Just look at some of the conservative Jewish communities in Israel today - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/1/who-are-the-haredim-... - who still practice some of these customs.

Note though that none of it can be termed antisemitic as everything in it was also applicable to other non-muslims (in whatever specific Islamic kingdom it happened). Right? That has been my whole point - muslims (other than religious fundamentalists ones) have never harboured any kind of ill-will or hatred for Jews (or other religions), till the west encouraged (sometimes forced) migrations of non-native, foreign-born Jews to the middle-east and tried to change the demographic of the whole region with nefarious political intentions.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#726

Post by namlem »

severino wrote: post #651
YZF wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Russias' narrative about its special operation in Ukraine is also about a defensive war. I'm curious to know about your stance on this Russian-Ukraine conflict.

Ukraine didn't attack Russia. Hamas attacked Israel.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#727

Post by hersko »

chimprich wrote: post #616
hersko wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they started a war they knew would cause mass death to their civilian population. How is that not the same thing?

You can't give all the blame for the deaths to Hamas. They gave Israel a monstrous provocation, but the decision to kill tens of thousands of civilians, and collective punishment by denial of food, water and medical care was the Israeli government's. If party A is using a human shield, and party B decides to kill the human shield to get revenge on party A, then who is culpable for the death? I don't think it's an ent…

This is not revenge, this is war. Until Hamas surrenders (they haven't) they are responsible for the civilian deaths.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#728

Post by zrn900 »

Maken wrote: post #550
zrn900 wrote: post #414

The new Nayirah Lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Even if there is exaggeration or inaccuracy in the reporting, the repression happening in Iran is certainly real and not a complete fabrication.

That's exactly what a lot of people said in 2003. Angloamerican propaganda does character assassination by reporting with double standards to demonize a target. After 5 to 10 years, those who feed on it are ripe for believing any 'bad deed' could have been done by Angloamerica's enemy because 'it is evil'.

Meanwhile, the US is censoring TikTok on behalf of a genocidal settler-colonial regime because its genocidal president asked for it in 2025. And that very US is the source of all these 'truths'.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#729

Post by Kennel5527 »

direwolf20 wrote: post #615
bdelmas wrote: post #289

I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

There's nothing western governments can do to stop this. There are no demands western people are making to their western governments. While for Palestine, people want our governments to stop giving bombs to the attackers.

There are very clear and easy things that those governments can do to stop all of this. Isolate the regime. 1. Declare irgc a terrorist organisation, establish sanctions for them and their families, mostly living abroad, block their assets abroad (like we did with some of the Russians involved with Ukraine) 2. Close all embassies in Iran 3. Cut all diplomatic ties with the regime.

This will completely isolate the current regime. Cut the safety net of the IRGC, and close the tap of money, effectively this will reduce close zero the money flows tha sustain all this and make the system very likely collapse.

Why we don’t do it? I guess oil sales to India and China are a good starting point. Then there’s the support to Russia with weapons and tech for Ukraine ‘special campaign’, and let’s not add the fact that a destabilised Middle East is so convenient to so many.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#730

Post by thisislife2 »

tptacek wrote: post #722
thisislife2 wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about grammar? Would you prefer that I write Israel is a settler-colonial state ?

At least that claim would parse? The issue isn't grammar!

Yes, it would and I have already shared some sources for the claim. So your assertions, without any supporting arguments for it, doesn't really sway me. Anyhow, I think we may have reached the limit of this kind of discussion on HN. If you want to explore this topic more, with others, https://politics.stackexchange.com/ would be a better place for this topic.
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