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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

721–730 of 783 posts

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigration agencies can still fight whatever after people have been kicked out as has been decided. Given that dragnet operations result in all sorts of random people being deported, including citizens, and given that sometimes these people are deported to countries where they face violence or death, you are arguing for state-sponsored violence without due process. Other than people immigrating, what other circums…

People should not be hiding in our country to escape death. If someone was willing to break the law that heavily, they should be deported and faced judgements as soon as possible as those are the people we should be removing from society as fast as possible.

> People should not be hiding in our country to escape death.

You're presuming people that face death in other countries do so because they're criminals or something? Sometimes it's because they're the wrong religion or wrong political ideology. I really can't understand your psychopathy here.

I take quite seriously our American value of "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free." It's what made America the land of opportunity. For your country as well I recommend promoting this value, it's the ethically good position.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to break the law is never a good thing. Suppose there is a law against being Jewish.

Then I suggest Jewish people not visit the country. Trying to still visit despite being banned will not leed to a good outcome.

Are you being purposefully obtuse? This is clearly a reference to early Nazi Germany, when being Jewish was made slowly illegal over time, and many Jewish Germans lived in, well, Germany of course!

Also in what world would the answer to "making an ethnicity illegal" be "don't visit that country" instead of "that country has an unethical law and should change it?"

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#723
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't ID people on porn sites with what's implemented in most European countries either. I feel like what you mean by "digital ID" is very different to what others mean.

How come not? I typically hear of some scammy Zero-Knowledge Proof promising the world and delivering either an easy-to-pass-around identifier or something readily able to be mapped back to you as a person.

I work in Zero Knowledge Proofs, and they are a great mathematical tool. But they ain't magic.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On due process, if someone accidentally gets a free flight to a foreign country, that totally sucks and they should be paid compensation, but let’s not pretend that deportation is the same as what authoritarian regimes typically do. Are you being facetious, or do you genuinely think so lightly of people being black bagged with no due process and deported to a random country that you'll joke about it being a "free f…

The way I think about this is, let’s say a lot of Americans are moving to Switzerland illegally by overstaying their visas. If I went along with that group, I would not be surprised to be deported by force. If I went there legally and got caught up in a raid or something, or even targeted personally because I sound American, and I get locked up for a bit and then sent back to America on an airplane, would I be upset?…

Your take's premises have flaws.

First off, maybe Americans do move to Sweden, and maybe sometimes they overstay their visas. On the other hand, for decades, various aspects of Sweden encourage this, such as the economic environment - turns out Swedes don't like picking apples, and if some Americans (a small percentage) don't overstay their visas, the apples don't get picked, and Sweden's apple industry collapses within a single season. So the society implicitly approves of having as many Americans as they can get, even if the government goes back and forth on the issue. As a result of this you have Americans with two generations of descendants that have lived in Sweden for decades and are undocumented or perhaps documented under some program that the new government of Sweden just decides it doesn't like. Or maybe they're citizens and the new government just wants to start denaturalizing.

> or even targeted personally because I sound American

I challenge you to really think deeply about this position. Think about what it means for a State to decide that all people from a whole bunch of different countries kinda look the same because of the color of their skin, or kinda have similar accents, and then just start arresting people based off of that. What does that mean for other people who happen to have accents? Who happen to have that one color of skin? Just typing it out makes me feel disgusted, it's flagrantly racist. Why don't you feel that way?

Finally, I really deeply wish to impress upon you the critical importance of due process. It genuinely is All or None. There is no "due process for people who immigrated legally and no due process for people who immigrated illegally," because due process is the method that determines that. If due process is gone, there is no "oopsies we deported you by accident," and there is no "hang on a second, I'm an American, I don't even have a passport, just look at my driver's license!" Do you understand that when due process is suspended, nobody is safe from being black bagged? How could you justify that? How do you not immediately think of the SS?

And all this for what? People being black bagged at the streets, people stuck in traffic tear gassed by high strung ICE agents, businesses being raided, all this violence because why? What actual problems were there from undocumented immigrants? Because deporting them is hurting the economy rather than helping it, so it wasn't the economy. Nobody's taking up the low paid fruit picking jobs that undocumented immigrants worked, so it wasn't for the jobs. Crime isn't going down, so it wasn't public safety. It's so transparently been a distraction from the failure of the ruling class to improve affordability that even my most stalwart of Trump supporting relatives are turning against it and looking to left economic populists like Mamdani.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> why do we think that they are using this as a ruse to like become despotically authoritarian in general You stated this very well. But I do think it's a ruse. I don't have a problem with enforcing the law on illegal immigration.[0] But I do think the deployment of National Guard and in some cases Marines on American streets, allegedly to disperse anti-ICE protests, is a long game to make sure that there will be no…

> "If these clowns can be used as a casus belli to declare war and use the US military against the civilian population, then..." That hasn't happened though. Deploying the national guard to stare down and maybe tear gas some clownish protestors is pretty typical stuff, not a civil war. By the way, I was in Seattle when the CHAZ stuff was happening and saw firsthand how both sides of the media were lying about the rea…

Well then it sounds like there's no reason to send the national guard in at all, and that it's quite wasteful to do so. So why are they sending in the national guard?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, well if it's a problem, it should be trivially easy for you to illustrate how exactly it's a problem, using hard facts and numbers. I earnestly invite you to do so!

See: demographic projections. Europeans are projected to numerically lose control of America, which in a democracy is equivalent to losing control functionally. It’s very convenient for a lot of people to pretend this doesn’t matter at all, and many or even most Europeans have at this point been brainwashed through childhood conditioning to not be able to go there even in their thoughts, lest they become the deepest…

> Europeans are projected to numerically lose control of America, which in a democracy is equivalent to losing control functionally.

This is incomprehensible to me, since there are no European Americans, there's just... Americans.

> Let me guess, I’m just a horrible immoral person and I’m not allowed to think about this, right?

Yes, you correctly intuit that there's something inherently wrong about being a racist. I support you in following this thread to figure out why people are disgusted when you talk this way.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#727
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling their objections “weirdly vitriolic” belies both a complaint about “kindness”, and shows an explicit desire to not learn a single thing. Perhaps, if you have genuine curiosity in the future, you should be thoughtful about the questions you ask, and the ad hominem attacks you make in the asking, rather than whining after the fact because people didn’t excuse your lack of tactful interaction sufficiently? Or ju…

The person to whom you are replying is not the person who said the "weirdly vitriolic" remark. You're chastising someone who didn't do the thing you are (rightly) opposing.

Ahh, fair enough, I misread/failed to read the username. Thank you for pointing that out!

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#728
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US (approximately) everyone has a social security number and a driver's license. In practice, those are equivalent to universal ID, just more annoying to use in everyday life.

Services do not regularly query your SSN or DL to determine if it is actively “in service” or is blocked. In fact most types of businesses don’t touch SSNs at all (the potential liability for mishandling it is radioactive). And the few that request licenses typically are only using it as part of a one-time KYC flow, there is no ongoing link to a central provider.

Yes, so you get all the downsides of

> "Legal" protections can disappear in one evening, and then you are left with a centralized system, very practical for population control.

but none of the upsides.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feed the troll. "MonkeyClub" has been downvoted and flagged in this thread.

That's factually incorrect. Keep persecuting, and your allegiance is becoming clearer.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

All your attempts to make this discussion into a negative political one instead of Cybersecurity related have failed.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#730
post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another anonymous id posting the usual provocative narratives and instigatory tropes. The Govt. of India has already clarified that the app can be deactivated/deleted by the user if they don't want to keep it. Given the huge second-hand market for mobile phones in India (especially amongst the large uneducated/unskilled subset of the populace) and their troubling use for all sorts of Scams/Frauds/Terrorism-related ac…

GoI has not clarified anything. The Telecom Minister has only provided verbal clarification, that too, after the issue gained traction on the internet.

No need to guess/jump-to-conclusions. Read the Govt. press releases;

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2197140&re... - Does NOT say anywhere that the app cannot be unregistered/deactivated/deleted. This is what the Telecom Minister was referring to.

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressNoteDetails.aspx?id=156294&NoteI... (pdf download popup which you can cancel) - Note the following excerpts;

Democratic, fully voluntary, user-driven platform and privacy-first app, activates only with user consent.

Sanchar Saathi app puts citizens first and protects their privacy at every step. It works only with user’s consent and gives full control over its activation and use.

  Activates only after user chooses to register
  User may activate, deactivate, or delete it any time
  Designed to strengthen India’s cybersecurity without compromising privacy
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