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Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

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Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#721

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sokoloff wrote: post #491
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concept. You have them do some task like fizzbuzz to see if they can program stuff on the fly that they would never need to do in real life. You practice that since school doesn't prepare you for that unless you do ACM programming contests or something. The interview demands this to see if the candidate is capable of cramming for the interview, which correlates with the effort, ability they could put into the…

I agree that some random leetcode-hard problem is not a good indicator, but if you can’t write fizzbuzz or can’t sum an array of integers, you’ve given me important data about your skills as a programmer on that day.

I’ve never had an interview question that asked me to do something straightforward. If I did get a question like that, I would be immediately suspicious about what the catch was.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#722

Post by ReflectedImage »

potato3732842 wrote: post #644
randerson wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still $5K more _economic_ value created, in that +$5K went to people who might otherwise be jobless. They'll in turn spend that money at businesses in the private sector, reaching more people, and so on. If the man with the septic tank runs a coffee shop, he will see extra value from more coffee sales. The extra taxes paid by all will (theoretically) improve the schools, roads, military, and services. The re…

>There is still $5K more _economic_ value created, in that +$5K went to people who might otherwise be jobless. They'll in turn spend that money at businesses in the private sector, reaching more people, and so on. If the man with the septic tank runs a coffee shop, he will see extra value from more coffee sales. That's the grade school analysis and in reality we are all poorer for it. If ten people pay $5k to avoid g…

Ahh the bad high school maths take, which doesn't account for the risk.

People don't just build 1 thing for a house nor can they afford a $20k failure.

If you take Fred who saves up $10k for a major purchase for his house each year.

If there is a 10% chance of a failure, then Fred will have a 53% chance of bankruptcy in 7 years.

You can't run an economy where everyone is bankrupt.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#723

Post by trashface »

hfsdhkdshksdhk wrote: post #371
jswelker wrote: post #102

Higher ed is like employer based health insurance in that they are both weird path dependent historical accidents. People want cheap healthcare, and it got shoehorned into an odd employer fringe benefit system that really is not at all related healthcare in any intrinsic way. People want job training, and it got shoehorned into extra departments at liberal arts universities intended as aristocrat finishing schools. J…

Funnily enough there is a parasitic vine in Australian rain forests that kills its host and then thrives. It grows completely around the tree and creates its own trunk on the outside. The tree underneath eventually cannot get any nutrients in its sap and dies. The vine then feeds on the tree as it rots away on the inside. Eventually you have a hollow tree.

Sure sounds like a good descriptor for the US healthcare system at least. The hospitals will still be operating and collecting government payments even when most people don't have healthcare. Bunch of empty rooms with beeping hardware everywhere. Meanwhile a bunch of sick and dying people outside the hospitals that are too poor to actually go into them.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#724

Post by kec »

roenxi wrote: post #307
monero-xmr wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but if the US truly has the best military (and it does 100x) then when push comes to shove, the US will destroy anyone who tries to undermine it. Very dangerous game to oppose it. Being able to construct things quickly is important, but if the US can militarily seize nearly every country on earth in days, the power is not necessarily where the kit is located

The US military isn't that scary; the evidence to date is that it's ability to destroy counties ends somewhere around Iran's strength. The modelling I've seen is that any US-China war will take place in Asia and China will probably win it unless the US gets a lot of help (always possible). And the US has already been undermined by the likes of China, Russia and India and there isn't a lot they can do about it in the…

I think you’re burying the lede there: this hypothetical war would be fought in Asia because China is completely incapable of projecting force to the North American continent. Without that ability to credibly threaten America China could not possibly win a war against it.

The conflicts which superpowers have withdrawn from have been against occupied nations which were in no position to ever become a future threat, this would not be true in a conflict with China, as China could conceivably develop the ability to project force and would be certainly motivated to do so during or after a real conflict.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#725

Post by ReflectedImage »

lurk2 wrote: post #383
overfeed wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The inheritors and descendants of those that directly created the problem are screaming at the colleges as the problem Not to mention rank-and-file American conservatives who see universities as bastions of liberal thought/power, and create threadbare, post-hoc arguments as to why universities have to be dismantled or politically reeducated when partisanship has to be disguised.

> when partisanship has to be disguised. The conservatives are right about the partisan bias of universities. See this survey by Mitchell Langbert. https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/31/2/homogenous_the_p... Anthropology and communications saw no registered Republicans. English, Sociology, and Art departments had a ratio of around 40:1 Democrat professors Republican professors, whereas in technical fields the rat…

This is a conservative problem.

Conservatives are split into 2 groups. Conservatives who are in it for the money and conservatives who are in it because they don't know any better.

College professor is not a well paying job for the level of skill required nor is it a job that someone who isn't very knowledgeable could do. That excludes most conservatives from the position.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#726

Post by snowwrestler »

fragmede wrote: post #703
snowwrestler wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers do not understand the true value of things. This is not news and not restricted to the field of education. “You’ll need to get a good job someday” is one of the all-purpose lines adults use when harassing them into making better life choices. College makes a person more capable in general, which confers long-term competitiveness during a career. That’s why parents want their kids to go to college. And the g…

> And the great thing is it works even if the kid is just checking the box. Maybe if you limit it to STEM degrees. There are plenty of people saddled with humanities degrees that haber no hope of paying off the loans taken to get the degree, nevermind a job past barista.

No, what I’m saying is that if a kid takes a college writing class and does enough to pass it, at the end that kid will be a better writer. Even if they did not like the class.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#728

Post by phatfish »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #603
jillesvangurp wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a simple and effective escape hatch: study abroad. Europe, Australia, South America, Canada even. Some countries are more affordable than others but the most expensive (by far) option is staying in the US. From the point of view of developing your brain, leaving your country is a free education in itself. There is also the effect of embedding yourself in a network of expats made up of the best and brightest f…

There is an actually easy an effective escape hatch right here in the US: Community college to state school path. You can get a full bachelors degree for ~$35k. All four years, $35k. Not per year. Full degree. $35k. And that's before any scholarships or grants. Kids and parents are just insane though, and want to flex about the college they are going to from day one. Its become a ritualistic practice with social sham…

A degree from the "right" college surely helps for certain firms? Sure, it must be a small number of top ones as most can't afford to be that choosy about their candidates.

Whether that is a sensible strategy for the firm (a candidate bias towards those who can pay the top college fees) is another question.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#730

Post by zipy124 »

petesergeant wrote: post #117
jswelker wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And resultingly, if you do go to college and immerse yourself in the educational experience, you come out with superpowers compared to your peers. Getting companies to see those superpowers in a hiring pipeline of course is a different story

Do American colleges not give degree grades? In the UK your degree class (grade) is moderately important for your first job

I mean even at my supposedly top uni in the UK 60-80% of the class got a first, depending on if a COVID year or not. Like 1% gets a 2:2 or below....
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