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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#721

Post by overfeed »

crazygringo wrote: post #647
overfeed wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But just ironing out the kinks. "Ironing out the kinks" in production on live data is stupid.

All your production code has been entirely bug-free? Nothing has ever gone wrong in production in ways that were fine on dev? You've never written code to improve one metric, only to discover in prod it made another metric worse that nobody had considered? How about a little humility for the ways in which we're all fallible and usually just trying to do our best?

My fallibility doesn't make stupid actions any less stupid. I've done stupid things myself, like ssh into prod to apply a "simple, one-liner hotfix" which ended up upgrading a minor annoyance into a partial outage.

Re: End of Japanese community

#722

Post by makeitdouble »

8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote: post #697

Reading the comments and replies here makes me wonder if I might have unintentionally stepped on some toes at work, especially across different cultures and people with different "takes" on English. I've also been on the receiving end (written communication) but given that we get along pretty well in-person, I chalked that up to our different writing "style".

I see your POV, but fundamentally the issue here is Mozilla screwing with their AI bot, and some employee jumping in to do some communication after everyone's already pissed.

Sure the Mozilla employee could use better phrasing and have a more considerate approach, but it comes out so worse because the situation is already critically bad.

People will give the benefit of the doubt when they see genuine care in the actual actions and a decent track record.

Re: End of Japanese community

#723

Post by cubefox »

m-schuetz wrote: post #377
cubefox wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. It's not the best possible phrasing, but people who find this sounds "horribly condescending" are excessively sensitive in my opinion. Like a grown man complaining about being "horribly hurt" when a careless passer-by bumped into him.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

No need to be sorry, I'm not a snowflake. :)

Re: End of Japanese community

#724

Post by mikkupikku »

price wrote: post #716
ecshafer wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to give money to Mozilla foundation, even when I didnt have much. Then I learned none of it goes to firefox. I think if Eich was still in charge there would be more focus on Servo, Rust, etc. making a better browser and less on selling AI and channeling money to absurd NGO causes.

Eich's own company, Brave, is pushing AI plenty hard: the Brave browser promotes a "smart AI assistant" called Leo. That's much more AI integration than I see in Firefox.

I don't speak for everybody but personally I like applications experimenting with ways of using new technology instead of taking some sort of political stand against AI. Firefox's translation extension is based on such technology I believe, and works well enough, I like it. Going further, like Brave is doing, also seems interesting. I think people who get upset about ineptly implemented AI features are being a bit unreasonable. It's new technology so people still have to. figure out what does or doesn't work. Mozilla using funds to develop new browser features is something I want more of, not less.

Re: End of Japanese community

#725

Post by Seattle3503 »

OvbiousError wrote: post #436
denkmoon wrote: post #250

Ladybird and other browser alternatives cannot come fast enough. Every other week we've got a thread here about some stupid move Mozilla have made, I can't remember the last time I heard positive news about Mozilla.

There is a very loud part of HN that strongly dislikes mozilla/firefox. It's disproportionate imo, I don't understand why they're singled out so often.

The tenor of criticism Firefox/Moz gets is akin to the purity testing that happens in some ideological space.

Re: End of Japanese community

#726

Post by Seattle3503 »

dimal wrote: post #664
OvbiousError wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very loud part of HN that strongly dislikes mozilla/firefox. It's disproportionate imo, I don't understand why they're singled out so often.

Betrayal has that effect. They're supposed to be the good side. They abandoned that, and now they're just like any other unsuccessful tech company, desperately clinging to relevance while discarding all the ideals that made some of us support them.

How would you run Firefox? How would you challenge Google and keep the web open?

Re: End of Japanese community

#727

Post by detaro »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #725
OvbiousError wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very loud part of HN that strongly dislikes mozilla/firefox. It's disproportionate imo, I don't understand why they're singled out so often.

The tenor of criticism Firefox/Moz gets is akin to the purity testing that happens in some ideological space.

Not wrong, but that comes with promoting yourself on ideology grounds. If you want support because you are the plucky underdog community project that cares about people and are running ad campaigns how you are not evil big tech, then don't be surprised if people hold you to it. Mozilla is in this weird space where it wants to be both the good little guys and a proper Silicon Valley tech company, and those don't necessarily mix well.

Re: End of Japanese community

#728

Post by Seattle3503 »

Aerolfos wrote: post #341
Stranger43 wrote: post #169

I think a fundamental lack of understanding/humility is the core of this conflict along with Mozilla's long and storied history of creating controversies/problems out of thin air. The Mozilla leadership seems to have a unfortunate tendency to emulate the behaviors of the tech companies that their core Firefox project is often seen as an alternative too. Firefox is a good browser but is prevented from capitalizing on…

>The Mozilla leadership seems to have a unfortunate tendency to emulate the behaviors of the tech companies that their core Firefox project is often seen as an alternative too. But of course, they need "competitive" salaries so they can hire "great talent" from the tech sector so that the company doesn't fall behind or something.

How would you develop Firefox?

Re: End of Japanese community

#729

Post by [deleted] »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #544
grvbck wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is horrifically patronizing after someone's volunteer work was effectively destroyed This, 100 %. "Your bot just destroyed 20 years of my work." "Naaaw, sorry you feel that way! Let's hop on a quick call so I can explain to you why you're wrong, mkay?" > It's one of those "they live among us" moments, where you realize that you're surrounded by psychopaths. Or has this kind of corporate language/attitude becom…

Yup, you get it. I wonder if cultural differences might play a role. I'm not from the USA, maybe this way of communicating is perfectly normal there and the rest of the word is just utterly baffled by it? Where I'm from this is how someone who has no respect for you deals with an inconvenience. Acknowledge no wrongdoing, make the situation about emotions rather than actions (sorry you feel this way), shift the conver…

[deleted]

Re: End of Japanese community

#730

Post by anigbrowl »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #534
kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

In my experience, the corporate request of a "let's talk" by a staff member is literally like automatic ticket creation and a reference number being assigned to it, and then just sitting on it and possibly claiming "we had a productive discussion and looking forward to working with the community and we are always keeping Mozilla users in our hearts and minds... " and the person who raised the issue in public is like…

Right. IF they were taking the issue seriously the response would be more along the lines of 'we didn't intend this outcome, and have paused availability of the bot while we re-examine the issue.' Mistakes do happen in large organizations where communication and project management is highly distributed, but but appears to be less of a mistake and more of a fait accompli, where a decision was made at a high level to roll out a new feature and objections are being treated as a PR problem.
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