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Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

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Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#721
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost Windows fluency around 7. I have little desire to get it back even though I use it every day as a secondary system. How many "control panels"? How many places are there to adjust audio device properties?

Also, every time you run something in Windows (whether it's part of the OS or an App) it can be a trip down memory lane, UI-wise. Oooh, this dialog is 2015 vintage! This dialog is styled like Windows 8! This one is from the XP era! Ohh, and that rarified dialog has controls that have not been changed since Windows 95!

There's still UI stuff that hasn't changed since Windows 3.1 minus the UI kit updates.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#722
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search feels to me like a good compromise between memorizing terminal commands (including the correct set of parameters to do what you want) and navigating through a UI to find what you're looking for.

Search is fine as a one-off thing, but if you repeatedly have to use search to find some common setting, that's a clear UX fail. To be fair, it's hard to say whether the Settings app is more broken in Windows or macOS these days. I think I'd have to give the crown to macOS here on account of search itself being more broken.

Hard Disagree, search is great for anything that is common, but not common enough to justify a shortcut / other accomodations

It also has the benefit of being roughly bilingual (English + Installed language) and being there even in machines not setup for you

I can get my mom's computer, fully set in spanish, and I can win + "query", into settings, programs and tools to setup whatever she needs

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Default keybindings have Shift+Super+Tab doing reverse window cycling in GNOME. Just tried it. Also, which unified button masquerades as two icons? Keyboard layouts are a pain, but there are some solid extensions that clean the flow up and may be upstreamed into GNOME at some point. It's all opinions, but boy, compared to the mess that is macOS and iOS regarding discoverability ... I'll take GNOME any. day.

True ! So why can I only remap cycling window in one direction and not the other ... ? The volume and power icons on the top right is actually one button and hides other option like screen lightning volume and wifi etc. If at list they had made a three vertical dots/stacked bars and is the convention for hamburger menus... From what I heard GNOME devs do not like change and it sucks to be a GNOME extension developer,…

I can believe that its easy to bounce off software because of a million paper cuts. But the problem with them trying to address every one of those proactively is that GNOME is a huge undertaking and they do their best to move at a fairly slow pace (now, after the 3 transition, which was akin to ripping a bandaid off ... go fast, piss the person off, but then the bandaid is gone).

I don't know if the CapsLock -> Escape switch is on a roadmap somewhere, but that is a little bananas. That said, my partner comfortably uses GNOME every day to browse the web and manage some files. Has she EVER wondered how to remap CapsLock? No. The people who do want to? Google can give you the answer pretty quickly. Not saying it's good UX, but GNOME balances a lot of use cases, and as this thread suggests, I think they've actually (with a LOT of complaining from engineers and power users) kept that balance pretty damn well to the point where I haven't been surprised by GNOME is a long time, and seems to slowly and progressively get better.

And yes, whoever jumps in here with their own papercut story, I know there is pain in not being the primary audience for software. But honestly, at least I'm in the same Venn diagram with my partner. The primary audience for macOS or iOS now appears to be ... I don't even know anymore. Used to be content creators, now it seems like even Apple doesn't actually know who uses their computers.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#724
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I found annoying at a previous big-tech work, was how the focus on top-level metrics (read, revenue-linked metrics) meant we couldn't fix things. There were a lot of smart people, very interested in fixing things— not only because engineers tend to like fixing things, but also because we, and everyone around us, were users too. For example, many things related to text input were broken on the site. Korean w…

You're implying that buggy software has no impact on the bottom line. I'm not so sure. Users weigh the availability of features against the quality of features. Getting bugs fixed is not necessarly the highest priority for users either. It's a trade-off. Our use of Microsoft 365 is a pretty good example of that. I moved our company to Microsoft 365 because it had some features we wanted. Then I moved the company off…

> You're implying that buggy software has no impact on the bottom line.

I'm not implying that, and I don't think my manager was implying that either. I think rather there were 2 things going on:

1. It's often hard to connect bug-fixing to metrics.

A specific feature change can easily be linked with an increase in sales, or an increase in usage. It's much harder to measure the impact of a bugfix. How can you measure how many people are _not_ churning thanks to a change you pushed? How can you claim an increase in sales is due to a bugfix?

In your case, I'm sure some team at Microsoft has a dashboard that was updated the minute you used one of these features you bought Microsoft 365 for. How could you build something similar for a bugfix?

Bugfixes don't tend make the line go up quickly. If they make the line go up it often is a slow increase of regained users that's hard to attribute to the bugfixes alone. Usually you're trying to measure not an increase, but a "not decrease", which if possible is tricky at best. The impact is intuitively clear to anyone who uses the software, but hard to measure in a graph.

2. A ruthless prioritization of the most clearly impactful work.

I wouldn't have minded working on something less-clearly measurable which I nonetheless thought was important. But my manager does care though because their performance is an aggregate of all those measurable things the team has worked on. And their manager cares, and so on and so forth.

So at the end of the day, in broad strokes, unless the very top (which tends to be much more disconnected from triage and edge-cases) "doesn't mind" spending time on less measurable things like bugfixing, said bugfixing will be incentivized against.

I think we all know this impacts the bottom-line. Everyone knows people prefer to use software that is not buggy. But a combination of "knowing is not enough, you have to show it" and "don't work on what you know, you have to prioritize work on what is shown", makes for active disincentivizing of bug-fixing work.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why remember all these little tricks Apple makes you do to use your own hardware?

Yes because everything in Linux is completely intuitive and you never have to know anything obscure to use it to your liking…

I never mentioned Linux. I'm curious why people want to pay for this component of their product from Apple.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference: in Linux it is a usability issue to be fixed, whereas on macOS it is a feature and explicit design goal to make it that way. In general, I have found that things which are difficult on Linux are so because the problem is difficult, not because the people who make my computer have paternalistic attitudes about my usage of it.

> In general, I have found that things which are difficult on Linux are so because the problem is difficult [...]. Hard disagree. Audio mixing is not difficult[1]. The Linux kernel guys were right - it does not belong in the kernel. The userspace story however, has been a complete shitshow for decades . I think Pipewire mostly fixed that? Not sure, sometimes I still have to log out and back in to fix audio. The funni…

I agree PulseAudio, Pipewire, ALSA, etc. are a pretty big shit show in Linux and have been for some time. From what I understand there are a few stories there with various levels of screw ups, but at no point was this situation the goal, and we are moving closer to an easy to use system that "just works" for these needs.

However, it's worth noting that audio experts doing high grade mixing in production are using these systems quite effectively and have been for a long time. It's similar to Blender in that regard with it always having the "guts" of doing great things, but only the experts that knew the correct spells to cast were able to use it effectively before the UI/UX was improved with 2.x and later I believe.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference: in Linux it is a usability issue to be fixed, whereas on macOS it is a feature and explicit design goal to make it that way. In general, I have found that things which are difficult on Linux are so because the problem is difficult, not because the people who make my computer have paternalistic attitudes about my usage of it.

So it’s purely ideological without any real world difference? Are most people better off with Apple defaults? And it’s not because the problem is “difficult”. It’s because for 20 years it has been claimed that this will be the “year of Linux on the Desktop” and it’s never been good enough for most people.

> Are most people better off with Apple defaults?

I think once you expand the scope to "most people" it might become impossible to say what the correct answer for that large of a group is. In the past their value add might have been more compelling and their feature lock not as draconian. It appears some people think that has changed over time.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#728
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has had a contemptuous attitude towards developers since.. the App Store? when the iPhone was out? The last two decades? They don't seem to care about this.

This is a ret-con. If you - as a user - were philosophically and inherently against the App Store, then it may seem that way, I guess? The reality is that there was a long period of time where Apple built up lots of goodwill with a developer ecosystem that exceeded by many orders of magnitude the pre-iPhone OS X indie Mac developer scene. There were many, many developers that hadn’t even touched a Mac before the iPho…

>This is a ret-con...

Another way to see it is that people who programmed for Mac OS already had reasons to be annoyed by Apple (e.g. 64bit Carbon). The iPhone let it get new people, who eventually found out why the pre-iPhone scene felt that way.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#729
post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ever since Jobs came back (and Apple became valuable again) it has also become very much top-down with the engineers, for better or worse, not calling the shots. Just an obvious example — there are of course no engineers in the decision to make a "Snow Leopard" release or not. It's unclear how much explanatory value this has, because the Snow Leopard that everyone is pining for was during the Jobs era. After all, a…

Yeah, I should be careful to not make it appear as though there were so clear a delineation when Jobs returned. His software engineering team got to work reshaping MacOS (as we know it now) but he seemed to this software engineer to be focused on hardware and "strategies" initially. Aqua, the new UI, came down from above soon enough. Drawers, toolbars were new UI elements that arrived. In time Jobs' designers were go…

Apropos Drawers: The may have looked a little bit silly back then but today almost every Mac app main windows has a big grey sidebar, so that in Exposé view almost all windows look the same. Drawers got an unfair rap, I think.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#730
post #59

> I am not suggesting Apple has fallen behind Windows or Android. Changing a setting on Windows 11 can often involve a journey through three or four different interface designs, artifacts of half-implemented changes dating back to the last century. Whenever I find myself stuck outside of Appleland, I am eager to return “home,” flaws and all. Hard agree with this. I sometimes have to boot up a windows laptop to play M…

I lost Windows fluency around 7. I have little desire to get it back even though I use it every day as a secondary system. How many "control panels"? How many places are there to adjust audio device properties?

If you want a super bad audio-related journey, try fixing external speakers connected to a Linux box. It's abysmal, and 99% of it can only be done via the CLI. Nothing wrong with that... but for something so normal I expected more ease-of-use.
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