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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#721

Post by nickff »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #453
sramsay64 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would look into countries where euthanasia has been already implemented. That's what puts me off of the idea in the first place. Cases like Christine Gauthier (a former army corporal and paralympian) who was offered euthanasia when trying to seek government disability benefits to install a wheelchair ramp. If it takes someone with existing fame to speak out about this, how many more people has this been pushed on…

> Just look at the end of the article. It gives several examples of the kind of thing that allows me as a utilitarian to say that the suffering of a few terminally ill is not as bad as the harassment of countless vulnerable people. Countless vulnerable people haven't been harassed. There are 12 documented cases in the history of MAID in Canada where someone was allegedly offered MAID innapropriately. There have been…

To be fair to the grandparent, you can’t fully audit whether the cases of the people who successfully petitioned, because they’re now dead.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#722

Post by squigz »

michael1999 wrote: post #288

People quote these figures, and I wonder: what would a reasonable ratio of MAID vs "natural" death be? I understand that Catholics and others will assert zero, full stop. Fair enough. I am grateful they have argued their case so well in the UK. But for those that approve of it in principle, how many is too many?

Well in terms of the question of whether we've 'gone too far', I don't think the total number or ratio is relevant - what is are what requirements are in place for this sort of thing. Even if 20% of deaths are through MAID, that doesn't necessarily mean that the requirements are too lax or that the system is being abused - another explanation would be that that many people simply don't want to suffer through an unpreventable death.

This number/ratio will surely only go up too, as people become more aware of it and it becomes more culturally acceptable.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#723

Post by lazyasciiart »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #314
hattmall wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that every OB/GYN has seen patients that regret the decision. And for most they will have seen instances where that regret ultimately led to suicide. Do you really want to be the doctor that didn't press for more consideration for a patient that ultimately takes their own life? I get the idea of giving women control but as a doctor it's also their right to refuse a procedure to not bear that burden. It's…

How common is this, really? I think you would have to weigh the chances of someone going through multiple specialists (psych evaluation, obgyn, possible other referrals) over the course of months and then magically they come to regret the procedure well into their full adulthood? At that point you might as well say that people shouldn’t be allowed cosmetic surgery, lasik, or braces.

It’s not common at all - on the contrary, the majority of ob-gyns have never seen a patient return and express regret about their voluntary sterilization, let alone know of one who was driven to suicide by it. I don’t know how this commenter came up with the idea.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#724

Post by squigz »

jbm wrote: post #7

I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I often saw Japanese media moving lock-step with the police (in terms of vocabulary to use for certain crimes, how to report certain issues), and thought it was creepy as hell. However, the complete lack of questioning of the purpose behind a sudden legalization of euthanasia (in a country with public he…

> I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this.

I suspect this claim to be dubious. I'm certain one can find 'Canadian press' that report issues with this.

However, putting that aside... I am not surprised, because most people feel that our current prevailing culture of extending life at any cost of suffering is... cruel. Most people are glad we have things like this, so their loved ones - and themselves - can go out with some amount of dignity.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#725

Post by squigz »

refurb wrote: post #517
fatbird wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker.... which has now uncovered a total of four cases where veterans were allegedly offered MAID — all apparently by the same caseworker". One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees. One person who presented the option overzealously or inappropriately, leading to four people feeling pressured, out of, IIRC, 45,000 people annually choosing MAID.

One person...that we know of. The fact this one person did this, contradicts your earlier statement of "But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people."

A more generous reading of the comment might have read it as "widespread abuse"

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#726

Post by squigz »

toasterlovin wrote: post #315
kridsdale1 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent.

> mistakes are often or sometimes made I think the mistakes in question would primarily be around whether someone is of sound mind to consent.

As others in this thread have pointed out, pressure (economic, from family members, doctors, etc) is also a big concern. Probably more so than whether they're of sound mind.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#727

Post by Lewton »

DanHulton wrote: post #716
Lewton wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program I would consider two of these absolutely monstrous reasons to assist someone in killing themselves. A broken society opting into killing its citizens because it can’t be arsed with fixing itself is next level evil

You're getting downvoted, but honestly, I agree with you. That said, I don't have any actual insight into the process; I was just extemporizing. So if it sounds fucked up, that's because _I_ fucked up and didn't think long enough about circumstances where someone would be approved for MAID instead of offered other solutions. It's entirely possible and indeed likely that if you can't afford medication or treatment, th…

It’s all good, I didn’t take your comment as an indication of how it actually functions in Canada. Just reacting to the implications of your examples

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#728

Post by 71bw »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #314
hattmall wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that every OB/GYN has seen patients that regret the decision. And for most they will have seen instances where that regret ultimately led to suicide. Do you really want to be the doctor that didn't press for more consideration for a patient that ultimately takes their own life? I get the idea of giving women control but as a doctor it's also their right to refuse a procedure to not bear that burden. It's…

How common is this, really? I think you would have to weigh the chances of someone going through multiple specialists (psych evaluation, obgyn, possible other referrals) over the course of months and then magically they come to regret the procedure well into their full adulthood? At that point you might as well say that people shouldn’t be allowed cosmetic surgery, lasik, or braces.

>At that point you might as well say that people shouldn’t be allowed cosmetic surgery

Indeed, they shouldn't.

>lasik

Which a lot of people report regretting and saying that has only made things worse...? Not a great example.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#729

Post by voidUpdate »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #138
guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

To be honest, my grand parents both died in their nineties and their last two years were really sad. It was not so much the physical decline but the mental one. At the end, while technically alive, so little of who they were as persons remained, they might as well have been dead. I fully understand someone in their 80s knowing the end is near choosing to leave on their own term.

If I start to develop some kind of age-related mental deterioration that is uncurable (eg dementia, alzheimers), I'll probably find a way to exit before I become incapable of making decisions like that independently, because I'm less scared of death than I am of losing myself like that

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#730

Post by 627467 »

caseyohara wrote: post #186
darth_avocado wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would’ve expected at least a waiting period longer than a week after a traumatic event. Of course I don’t know all the circumstances around it.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

> who decides

Well, any person involved in the process of making something real? And that would include doctors right? Why doesn't doctor/health professionals opinion matters if they are the ones actually executing the request?

Full-grown adults in a society don't live alone - others opinion matters too.

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