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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#721

Post by arendtio »

rekoil wrote: post #712
arendtio wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I don't get how Apple always gets away with the sh*t they are doing. All Smartphones on this planet use the same USB-C charging port except iPhones. And as far as I remember, the European Union requires the manufacturers by law to use USB-C, because before the law every phone came with a different power adapter. Next example, OS and browsers: Every Operating System has to offer the user the choice of which b…

> All Smartphones on this planet use the same USB-C charging port except iPhones. And as far as I remember, the European Union requires the manufacturers by law to use USB-C, because before the law every phone came with a different power adapter. The law you're talking about here specified that the charger itself must have a standard USB-C port. Apple gets away with it because 1. they don't even bundle a charger anym…

Thanks for the details.

For me it shows what kind of a company Apple is. Even companies like Sony (who install rootkits on your devices without your consent), comply with the spirit of the charging adapter law. But Apple tries to find a loophole, just to push their own agenda, at whatever cost for society.

But as you said, the other large corporations probably do it in some way too.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#722

Post by 0x457 »

arendtio wrote: post #709
0x457 wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Apple offers a neat well maintained garden that is the greatest thing as long as everything you need is there, and you don't eat any apples. MS looks at it and thinks their frat party mansion (3 bedroom duplex) can do the same. Apple gets away with it because that what their target audience want. MS target audience doesn't want it. If I wanted a walled garden - I would use Apple, they clearly know how to mai…

Actually I don't get how Apple always gets away with the sh*t they are doing. All Smartphones on this planet use the same USB-C charging port except iPhones. And as far as I remember, the European Union requires the manufacturers by law to use USB-C, because before the law every phone came with a different power adapter. Next example, OS and browsers: Every Operating System has to offer the user the choice of which b…

Uhm, I had pixel phone is the first Pixel. Once it started using wireless charging, I only use usb-c in three scenarios: I'm traveling and using a powerbank, I'm in a car and want to use Android Auto (for some reason my car has wireless Car Play, but not AA), or I'm on a couch and my phone is low on battery (never happened when I iPhone tho). For this reason, I travel with cables that have adapters for lightning. Annoying, but not the end of the world.

I realistically don't care what port is on my phone, but my wife's phone has USB-C and I have 9000 and 1 usbc cables at home.

> Every Operating System has to offer the user the choice of which browser they want to use. Except for Apple, they offer a choice of which UI you want to use, but on iOS the browser engine is always Safari (which kills competition hard on iOS devices).

This is due to security imposed on App Store apps: can't do JIT, and you can't have a reasonable JavaScript engine today without it. Frankly, I'm not concerned with what engine browser uses as long as everything synced.

I have plenty of annoyances with Apple, but what people usually bring up are from people just looking for reasons to hate on Apple for no reason.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#723

Post by 908B64B197 »

JohnFen wrote: post #717
908B64B197 wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. It's part of the reasons. Another one is a lot of websites would only test on Chrome. So if Chrome implemented a standard in a slightly different way than the spec, it would break on all other browsers.

But well-designed websites don't alter their behavior based on the user agent string. They test for capabilities before using them.

Indeed.

That's the correct thing to do and it's what real software engineers will do. But from the horrors I've seen in offshored websites, that's science-fiction to some coders. They will assume whatever version of Chrome they are running is the only one in existence and will use user-agent string once someone tells them their site is broken in Safari.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#724

Post by beerpls »

out-of-ideas wrote: post #614
beerpls wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just about trust, MS is outright hostile. Hostile UI, hostile business practices, hostile legal and growth endeavors At this point i’m not hust distrusting MS i’m actively doing anything I can to support their demise

aren't all these providers-of-things hostile in about (all ways) or at least most ways than not hostile ways? MS, Apple, Google, Amazon, FB, Adobe, IBM... they just want money; where's the money?

I feel the same about them all, tho MS google and fb all top the ranks imho

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#725

Post by darkarmani »

sn_master wrote: post #500
jsiepkes wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but even if it's about .NET Core; As far as I can tell the creation of .NET Core was a business decision and not because MS suddenly wanted to create a better product. More then 50% of the VM's in Azure run Linux and not Windows. On AWS and GCP the percentage VM's running non-Windows OS'es is probably even higher. That's a realistic threat to the continued existence of .NET if .NET only runs on Windows.

Aside from the cost of licensing Windows which makes small-sized non-Windows VMs cheaper, there's been a strong pro-Linux bias in academia for a long time that nobody likes to talk about.

> there's been a strong pro-Linux bias in academia for a long time that nobody likes to talk about.

Who doesn't like to talk about it? It's so much easier to integrate components on Linux over windows. Why would anyone willingly use windows for data analysis?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#726

Post by kbenson »

JohnFen wrote: post #719
kbenson wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a company wide policy that Microsoft apps open links in edge, or a Teams and Edge thing? Do office apps open links in edge? Does VS code? If they do, then I agree with you. If they don't, then I don't, for what should be obvious reasons.

If a company has implemented it in a product that is publicly released, it's a company policy even if only the dev team was responsible for it.

Eh, no. That's a reach. A company policy would be something that the whole company is expected to follow. If only the teams that coordinated on it follow it, that's not a policy in any way, it's just a choice that a portion of the company made, it could be something that the company doesn't care about one way or another or it could be something that wasn't addressed prior to release (if you think every decision a team makes gets complete review and is totally understood, I think you're wrong).

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#727

Post by ajmurmann »

coffeeling wrote: post #516
ajmurmann wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the group editing in those products...! Every time we've edited Excel sheets with more than one person it quickly restored in unresolvable merge conflicts and forked files. This has always worked beautifully in Google Sheets.

From what I've heard, the sync works well when everyone's using the same kind of client (eg. desktop, or web app). If they get mixed things become slowwe to update and have a decent chance to quickly go to hell.

I'm not sure if that's maybe even worse.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#728

Post by rekoil »

arendtio wrote: post #721
rekoil wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All Smartphones on this planet use the same USB-C charging port except iPhones. And as far as I remember, the European Union requires the manufacturers by law to use USB-C, because before the law every phone came with a different power adapter. The law you're talking about here specified that the charger itself must have a standard USB-C port. Apple gets away with it because 1. they don't even bundle a charger anym…

Thanks for the details. For me it shows what kind of a company Apple is. Even companies like Sony (who install rootkits on your devices without your consent), comply with the spirit of the charging adapter law. But Apple tries to find a loophole, just to push their own agenda, at whatever cost for society. But as you said, the other large corporations probably do it in some way too.

One could argue that the spirit of the law is an aim to reduce e-waste, and changing iPhones to USB-C will render literally billions of Lightning to USB-A/C cables useless within a few years. But there's obviously the argument that the existence of a need for those cables is in itself a source of e-waste production...

I swing both ways honestly, I love many engineering aspects of the Lightning port, and at the same time I recognise that having only USB-C to care about would obviously simplify my life a bit, even if I think for the purpose of a mobile phone it is an inferior port.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#729

Post by peoplefromibiza »

throwaheyy wrote: post #671
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think the underlying engine really matters It is what makes all the difference here. Many features that are a Web Standard are unsupported on iOS precisely because Apple refuses to allow alternative engines because they don't want those features on their platform (mostly to favor native apps under the pretext of security, like if Google is not capable of making a secure browser, at least as secure as Safari…

99% of users don’t care that it’s the same engine. They probably don’t even know. Looks the same, works the same, what does it matter? They just want to pick the browser name they trust, log in to its account and have all their favorites/bookmarks there. Whichever engine the browser happens to use is the least of their concerns.

> what does it matter?

it matters in the same way a Honda disguised as a Mercedes it's not a Mercedes. It's a Honda.

> Whichever engine the browser happens to use is the least of their concerns.

Not disagreeing with you on this, that's the way it should be.

OTOH, using simple logic, if it doesn't matter Apple would allow other browser engines on their platform, because it doesn't matter. But apparently it does matter. It matters so much that EU is trying to force Apple to permit alternative implementations of the software called "a Web browser".

Anyway, we have a precedent:

"Microsoft distributed its browser software, Internet Explorer, among consumers for free. It led to a concentration of the market share and the eventual downfall of Netscape, the company’s top competitor at the time. The DoJ case alleged that Microsoft was intentionally making it extremely difficult for consumers to install software by other companies on personal computers that ran on Microsoft’s operating system."

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#730

Post by peoplefromibiza »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #50
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-competitive behaviour runs deep in ~~Microsoft~~ rampant capitalism, especially in the US of A the end goal is always to become a monopolist

Well on paper at least, the US has antitrust laws going back to the Sherman Act and Standard Oil. Microsoft was basically inches away from being broken up in the late '90s due to their anti-competitive practices.

> Well on paper at least, the US has antitrust laws going back to the Sherman Act and Standard Oil.

That's my point.

China got their "Antimonopoly law" in 2007.

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