Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 1001 posts

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#721

Post by mardifoufs »

ss108 wrote: post #451
khazhoux wrote: post #234

Time once again to post Jon Stewart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSfejgwbDQ8 I still don't understand how in 2020 people were branded as racist sinophobes for saying that the coronavirus that originated in Wuhan, probably originated from the coronavirus research lab in Wuhan . I know suspicion isn't fact, but that should have always been the leading theory to be disproved. Instead, IIRC Twitter and FB were flaggi…

Because we had a racist president who said stuff like "China virus" in a stupid and demeaning way--i.e. what may have been a valid and reasonable argument or position had its credibility ruined by being taken up by Trump and his ilk for their own ends.

I mean, indirectly defending China by completely discrediting and demonizing any discussion the origins of a life-changing pandemic... to own Trump? is just... a bit pathetic honestly. It ironically completely ruins the credibility of those who were so keen to completely stonewall a super important issue just because they are so drunk on partisanship that Trunp being right isn't even a possibility. Peak Blue MAGA

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#722

Post by anon291 »

mliker wrote: post #639
pessimizer wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is absolutely, literally true. I also don't understand the nuance that anyone could miss here. The astounding thing is that the Energy Dept. can say that a lab leak is the most likely cause of the pandemic, and people jump out in front of them to say that what they somehow still mean is that a lab leak wasn't the cause of the pandemic. They have "low confidence" that it was a lab leak ( there might not e…

Yes, but the point is the headline is clickbaity, and for the uninformed masses, it sounds like it's highly likely it's from the lab, when that judgment was made with "low confidence"

A distinction without a difference.

I've said it was a lab leak from about month two of the pandemic.

Any sane person hearing me say this should assume I have low confidence as the sort of evidence necessary to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt is information a random hn commentor could not possibly have.

Unfortunately, even expressing that you thought it likely it was a lab leak was enough to get my accounts banned on several social media.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#723

Post by hotpotamus »

bradleyjg wrote: post #703
hotpotamus wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the origin of Bubonic Plague, of AIDS, of Polio? Do we know in sufficient detail? I remember many saying that the exact origin of SARS-CoV-2 may never be known. Say it did escape from a Chinese lab - is that all you need to know? Or would you want to know how it came to be in the lab in the first place?

I remember articles and quotes firmly rejecting the lab leak hypothesis and darkly implying that those championing the theory had a hidden agenda. The considerations were: — there were random attacks on Asians - public health officials and scientists were worried about an anti science backlash - virologists were really worried about a backlash against virology — relations with China had not yet deteriorated to their…

There were and are problematic elements of the lab leak people as well - I still see people (on this site) who claim that some or all aspects of the virus were synthetically created at the behest of Anthony Fauci. You may say I'm nutpicking, but I truly have a hard time determining what the lab leak theory is sometimes.

But my sense was that the agenda behind the lab leak family of theories was to lay blame at some human or humans for the events of the pandemic, which to me seems like a fairly futile endeavor. One of my questions for these people has always been this: say their darkest theories are correct; what am I supposed to do about that? It seems that the best course of action was to wear masks, socially isolate as much as possible, and get vaccinated and keep getting vaccinations as new strains appear.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#724

Post by mardifoufs »

zzzeek wrote: post #696
UKR_anon wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I never saw lab leak called fake news. I saw it called irrelevant, not important, unlikely, not knowable , but never "fake". Just want to see the source, that's all

Here is a 2020 article calling it a conspiracy theory

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/16/tom-cotto...

Here is a politico article explaining how Facebook won't ban you for talking about it (anymore), since they used to treat it as fake news.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-...?

"Facebook will no longer take down posts claiming that Covid-19 was man-made or manufactured, a company spokesperson told POLITICO on Wednesday, a move that acknowledges the renewed debate about the virus’ origins.[...] The findings have reinvigorated the debate about the so-called Wuhan lab-leak theory, once dismissed as a fringe conspiracy theory"

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#725

Post by jboy55 »

goatlover wrote: post #709
notfed wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the headline is clickbait. As you have said, you have to read the article to determine the radically different meaning of the headline. That's how clickbait works.

How is it clickbait? A US intelligence agency did say that the lab leak theory was more likely than the wet market one, even if their confidence is low to moderate.

And 4 other US intelligence agencies still say the wet market is more likely.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#726

Post by anon291 »

autoexec wrote: post #651
smsm42 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lab leak and bio weapon are two completely different theories, and conflating them means you don't actually bother to learn the argument of the opposing side(s), before dismissing them as "crazies". I think if you attempt to have serious discussion the minimum you should do is to learn what the disagreement is about. If you don't bother to do even that, then what's the point in it? Just booing the outgroup one more t…

> Lab leak and bio weapon are two completely different theories, and conflating them means you don't actually bother to learn the argument of the opposing side(s), before dismissing them as "crazies". I never said they were the same thing. They are different, but they were both BS conspiracy theories because they were pushed without sufficient evidence to support them and while ignoring stronger evidence for other th…

The bat origin also had no evidence given that the bats that naturally carry this kind of corona virus are not endemic to Wuhan and are not regularly consumed.

Yet many people insisted that this was the origin.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#727

Post by Vecr »

Zetice wrote: post #238
wahnfrieden wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it credible to you when you can as easily find contrary positions from other us govt agencies? what makes a "low confidence" doe take more credible than the other agencies to you

Hm, so the way I'm using "credible" here is as, "able to be believed". So I find the DoE and therefore the idea credible. It doesn't mean I do believe it, or that I find other, contradicting positions "uncredible" (incredible? lol). The DoE is just an institution I trust, and if they're willing to publish this, I'm willing to listen to what they have to say.

I've heard through channels that the opposite of "credible" is "non-credible".

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#728

Post by anon291 »

autoexec wrote: post #569
dangwhy wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how were the people pushing wet market theory not "crazies" also then.

> how were the people pushing wet market theory not "crazies" also then. Because they had evidence that made the wet market theory the one most likely to be true, and a lack of stronger evidence for the lab leak theory. Investigating and supporting the theory that is best supported by the evidence you have isn't crazy, it's science. When you look at all the facts you have, and then ignore that because it doesn't supp…

The lab leak theory folks had plenty of evidence. The evidence the dept of energy cities is identical to what the supposed conspiracy theorist have said for months / years.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#729

Post by paiute »

jcranmer wrote: post #704
hotpotamus wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the origin of Bubonic Plague, of AIDS, of Polio? Do we know in sufficient detail? I remember many saying that the exact origin of SARS-CoV-2 may never be known. Say it did escape from a Chinese lab - is that all you need to know? Or would you want to know how it came to be in the lab in the first place?

AIDS is caused by HIV, which is believed to have evolved from a virus infecting primates in Africa (probably more specific details than that exist, but I don't know them offhand). Bubonic plague and polio both predate the existence of writing, and may well predate even agriculture.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_polio_vaccine_AIDS_hypo...

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#730

Post by midoridensha »

jandrese wrote: post #662
unicornmama wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns serve a purpose: to slow the spread of the virus.

Also to give people time to develop the vaccine for the virus. Lockdown until the vaccine is administered to the community is a sound policy.

It took over a year to deploy the Covid vaccines. You want people to lockdown for 1-2 years when a new outbreak happens?
Post reply on HN