$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network • Hacker News Board

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#721

Post by LtdJorge » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

mrmuagi wrote: post #476

saboot wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are neglecting to mention the great upsides in crypto currency. * Giving criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously. * Providing a source of funding North Korea's nuclear weapons program * Allowing nation states to engage in global commerce despite sanctions because they won't stop killing innocent people * Convincing older and gullible people to give their money to someone they…

>* Giving criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously. I don't see how this is any different than the bog standard "encryption lets criminals and scammers the ability to exchange goods and services anonymously.". Should money/txns be fundamentally track-able/examinable/un-encrypted but your private data/messages not? Surely this contention is something you also consider -- care to ex…

The difference is crypto(graphy) is "old" and established, while crypto(currencies) and blockchain are new and trendy. It's like what happened with the JS frameworks, which have stabilized now a bit. Everyone wanted to create a new amazing project, everyone was lured into using X or Y framework because Z. But not many know a lot about them. Same with crypto, people see it's trendy and go in even if they lack all the technical knowledge around it. Thus, scams and hacks are everywhere.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#722

Post by simonebrunozzi » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

mypalmike wrote: post #223

rinze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio's checking account would be. But it's decentralized. (Do the same hand movement as if saying "It's got electrolytes")

It's got Decentralytes!

Brilliant.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#723

Post by Hackbraten » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:03 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #699

Hackbraten wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have stopped using credit cards for two reasons: 1. My debit cards allow me to directly import transactions into my personal accounting software while my credit cards don’t; and 2. when I shop online, my debit cards allow me to use them as a 2nd factor (using a USB card reader) while my credit cards require either an iOS or Android device for 2FA. You’re right in that a credit card is a future charge and debit isn’…

There’s no reason to want your credit card to have 2FA. It’s not your money, so the only point is to annoy you when you’re spending someone else’s money. Well, or to use it with sites that require 3D Secure, but that’s still something to help the merchant not you.

As if it was my choice.

EU-wide regulation requires all banks to force 2FA onto their customers for logging into their accounts.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#724

Post by freeAgent » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

iskander wrote: post #547

woah wrote: post #495

As usual on HN there are a lot of useless comments in this thread that are ill-informed dunks on cryptocurrency, but the real story of what happened is actually about the hazards of not using a blockchain. The system that was compromised was a "proof of authority" chain. These are different from proof of work or proof of stake chains that have hundreds or thousands of distinct validators. In a "proof of authority" ch…

The security practice here is even worse than what you're describing, the company servers had been authorized to sign on behalf of the DAO, so only one compromise was required to get 5/9 validators.

It was decentralization theater. When a single entity can control the network (or funds), making multiple keys all controlled by that same entity is pointless.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#725

Post by phphphphp » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #646

phphphphp wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cryptocurrency dunking is because of exactly what you describe: the technology, in its purest form, can avoid a certain category of problems... but those problems are rarely relevant and instead the "cryptocurrency" industry is just a bunch of people chanting the word "blockchain" over and over again as they code their way into a plate of spaghetti. Axie Infinity is one of the shining stars of the cryptocurrency…

> the fact that they use a side chain with centralised validators is immaterial. The hack happened because private keys were stolen, which is just as much of a vulnerability if this happened entirely on the main ethereum chain where acquiring the various private keys required to create a legitimate multi-signature is just as possible. No, you're wrong. The number of unique validators is at the heart of this hack, sin…

I thought you were looking for a sincere response to your point about skeptics, but you're now labelling me as someone who doesn't understand the technology and using that label to discredit my point... but I do understand the technology, as is evidenced by my comment, which you echoed with your own.

You're building this conversation on the belief that the problem is technical, i.e: if the hack could have been prevented, then cryptocurrency is legitimate, and Axie Infinity is legitimate, and therefore the skeptics are wrong if you can prove that cryptocurrency could be used in a way to prevent this hack which you can. That's nonsense, though, because the cryptocurrency skeptics (myself included) are not arguing that there are not technical solutions to these hacks, of course there are, better private key protection is a remedy to private key compromise... but that's not the point, at all, and it's disingenuous for you to pretend you defeated the skeptics by pointing it out.

Do you know how Axie Infinity works? What it is? Axie Infinity is an insane scheme that is destined to fail and hurt a lot of people along the way. Cryptocurrency skeptics take issue with that predatory behaviour: these hacks are further example of the absurd levels of incompetency and fraud involved in the industry, they're not THE problem.

Saying "I'm genuinely curious" doesn't make you genuinely curious if you're not approaching this with a curious mind... it just makes you disingenuous. If you're genuinely curious, you'd at least ingest the key message and respond to it without jumping to an assumption that only you are smart enough to understand very simple technology.

Cryptocurrency is neat technology, in the same way sql is neat technology, nosql is neat technology, I think the technology of cryptocurrency is interesting, as do most cryptocurrency skeptics, which is entirely logically consistent because cryptocurrency skepticism is rooted in a disagreement with using a neat technology as the foundation of some half-baked predatory "financial revolution".

If you're going to reply to me, please first consider the awful predatory mechanics of Axie Infinity, and address that.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#726

Post by mrb » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

audiometry wrote: post #670

mrb wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« This is exactly why crypto is such a disaster. » Correction: this is exactly why MONEY is such a disaster. There has always been scams involving money since, well, since money was invented. You guys portray crypto as being particularly terrible, but the truth is there are hundred times (or more) more money being lost to scams involving the US dollar or the Euro. Crypto is no better or no worse in this regard. Some…

Crypto is far worse. You need to normalize the amount-looted by the amount of transactions conducted. Very clearly 'traditional' finance is far safer. There's a reason financial institutions are annoying and stodgy -- they have centuries of hard-lessons-learned. Crypto 'disruption' is mostly throwing away that painful experience.

Bitcoin alone, excluding other cryptos, transacts 1500 billion USD per year. How much is lost to fraud yearly? 2 billions? That's 0.13%. Does fiat lose less than 0.13% to fraud?

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#727

Post by woah » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

phphphphp wrote: post #725

woah wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that they use a side chain with centralised validators is immaterial. The hack happened because private keys were stolen, which is just as much of a vulnerability if this happened entirely on the main ethereum chain where acquiring the various private keys required to create a legitimate multi-signature is just as possible. No, you're wrong. The number of unique validators is at the heart of this hack, sin…

I thought you were looking for a sincere response to your point about skeptics, but you're now labelling me as someone who doesn't understand the technology and using that label to discredit my point... but I do understand the technology, as is evidenced by my comment, which you echoed with your own. You're building this conversation on the belief that the problem is technical, i.e: if the hack could have been preven…

I don't know much about Axie Infinity, and it may well be terrible.

I was addressing your claim about the private keys. I think that criticisms of what people build with blockchain are entirely fair, and make for informative discussion. But too often, blockchain critics make overconfident technical claims that are simply wrong. This doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and it's unfortunate that they detract from their other arguments with this misinformation.

In the worst case I've noticed that on HN it leads to a filter bubble mentality of blockchain critics who read each other's arrogant claims about blockchain technology because they feel it is beneath them to read about how the technology actually works.

I'm sorry to have lumped you in with them, but it is a common tendency.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#728

Post by xvector » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 9:59 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #566

xvector wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- not having a central payment processor know everything about you - buying drugs/porn/VPNs/etc in a country that has a backwards stance on them - anonymous donations - purchasing services (eg commissioned art) without revealing your identity - sending money to friends and family during hyperinflation/freedom from government (mis)management of currencies Freedom of speech (eg cryptography) is not worth much without t…

So… - Not having anyone watch out for you - Buying slaves/child porn/weapons in countries with a “backwards stance” on them - You don’t need crypto for that. A lawyer could do it for you. - See above - Use any other currency that’s not undergoing hyper inflation

Seems like you can use the same arguments for encryption.

- Not having anyone "watch out" for your communications

- the ability to pirate or download content illegally

- can have a lawyer handle secure communications

- just use a different messaging service

Clearly we value the freedom and privacy provided by encryption to ignore these arguments.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#729

Post by MBCook » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 10:12 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #728

MBCook wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So… - Not having anyone watch out for you - Buying slaves/child porn/weapons in countries with a “backwards stance” on them - You don’t need crypto for that. A lawyer could do it for you. - See above - Use any other currency that’s not undergoing hyper inflation

Seems like you can use the same arguments for encryption. - Not having anyone "watch out" for your communications - the ability to pirate or download content illegally - can have a lawyer handle secure communications - just use a different messaging service Clearly we value the freedom and privacy provided by encryption to ignore these arguments.

I believe in string encryption. The difference is usefulness. I’ve seen others express this in this post’s comments.

Encryption is EXTREMELY useful, as history has proved. It has a great many beneficial uses, or at least benign. Yes it can be used by criminals, but that’s hardly its only use.

Cryptocurrency doesn’t seem to provide anything but something to speculate on, a way to sell hardware, and an unfathomable waste of resources. When people point out things it’s “better” at they always seem kind of sketchy, of require you to old the same values (independence from central government above all else). I see no inherent good after 14 years, just massive problems.

So no, I don’t think they’re comparable myself. I don’t find them similar at all for the purposes of the point I’m trying to make.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#730

Post by wes-k » Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 10:26 PM UTC

mypalmike wrote: post #223

rinze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine how preposterous the idea of storing $650mm in USD in a random game studio's checking account would be. But it's decentralized. (Do the same hand movement as if saying "It's got electrolytes")

It's got Decentralytes!

Haha, nailed it!