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$625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

roninblockchain.substack.com

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Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#561

Post by xvector »

dmitriid wrote: post #548
Sargos wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>encryption has many, many actually useful and productive applications So does crypto but likewise opponents of encryption disregard the positives and focus on the negatives to align with their preformed ideas. The only way out of this trap is to have an open mind and internalize the fact that all technologies can be used for good and evil and thus are relatively neutral overall. Humanity must take the good and bad a…

> So does crypto It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.

- not having a central payment processor know everything about you

- buying drugs/porn/VPNs/etc in a country that has a backwards stance on them

- anonymous donations

- purchasing services (eg commissioned art) without revealing your identity

- sending money to friends and family during hyperinflation/freedom from government (mis)management of currencies

Freedom of speech (eg cryptography) is not worth much without the ability to actually use said freedom to drive a change (e.g. requiring work, thus requiring money.)

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#562

Post by 3np »

joosters wrote: post #433
anchpop wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now they're immature, but I'm hopeful that advancements in ZK-tech will allow practical ZK-rollups. ZKSync already has a zk-evm testnet running (which I believe is based on zk-llvm), so we're close. Currently all the big rollups have master keys which can be used to steal all the money deposited by them, but there's no reason in principle they have to have this. Polygon has permissionless rollups, so I'm quite…

The crypto(graphy) is rarely the weakness in these situations, so declaring faith in (insert new tech buzzword here) is almost certainly not going to be the answer. It comes down to operational and human factors, like poorly written code. (new tech buzzword) will involve lots of new code, and why do people think this time the new code will be error-free?

What you are saying applies equally to "the internet" and "computers".

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#563

Post by HWR_14 »

leifg wrote: post #399
HWR_14 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you first responded to chippiewillie you talked about how forking would produce a reversal of all the transactions. That's not true, but it is what you identified as a "much deeper problem"

My apologies, I used “reverse” and “invalidate” synonymously. Nevertheless on a public blockchain all transactions would be invalidated and that indeed is a problem. Because everyone who received coins would have to wait again for n confirmations in order to be sure they got their money. In theory nobody should be able to add a double spend transaction to the pool but I wouldn’t bet on it. That’s what I mean with tec…

> when you come to that conclusion you should probably take a step back and rethink “why are we doing all of thatch blockchain stuff when we need to rely on a central authority?”

I think blockchain is going to eventually die for that exact chain of reasoning.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#565

Post by arcticbull »

xur17 wrote: post #557
arcticbull wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do get that you don't "get" it, but I'll just say - I happily send and receive both BTC and ETH, and it is a night and day difference from sending using traditional bank accounts. I actually feel like I own the money, I can send it to anyone I want at any time, and the transaction settles in seconds. Last time I sent money via ACH, it took a solid 4 days (since I initiated on a Friday). This is just a criticism o…

> This is just a criticism of US banking, not 'TradFi' as a whole. Most countries have let you do the exact same thing for free or at a low cost out of your existing bank account, no overhaul required, for years. The EU has SEPA, the UK has FPS, Canada has Interac e-Transfers, Australia has NPP. I suspect you'd have a hard time finding a country other than America which doesn't support this. But what these services o…

You're conflating two separate things: bank-to-bank person-to-person transfers and Adyen, which is a merchant acquirer. Merchant acquirers and credit networks operate under different terms. Chargebacks exist because there is a demand for them. They exist because customers want them - and yes, even businesses want them. It gives folks the confidence to buy without having to worry about trusting the merchant (because they trust the network to resolve a dispute). It increases average ticket sizes and payment volume. This is a good thing that crypto lacks. Finality isn't actually what you want in most cases.

However it's irrelevant to this conversation because it also doesn't apply to any of the networks I listed. Adyen != FedNow. The systems I listed actually do provide instant settlements - as the money hits your account it's yours to spend.

If for the bank, settlement isn't instant (and that's an if because again for the services I listed I don't believe it to be the case) they can just do what everyone else does and borrow against it for basically no cost while it settles.

Again, this is a solved problem and broadly not an issue.

[edit] Just as I suspected, FedNow settles instantly. [1] And all for the low, low price of $0.045 per payment, and $0.01 per invoice! I know, its pretty unbelievable they found a way to decrement a number in one database while incrementing it in another database without involving a global network of graphics cards, burning down the rainforest and re-inventing the very concept of money. (that is to say, without "going Rube Goldberg on it").

  Unlike cards, SEPA does not have an additional authentication layer, such as a CVC check or 3D Secure. Consequently it is important to have good risk management tools in place to offset the threat of fraud.
And this? Literally describes crypto. Because they both offer instant, final settlements without a second factor like a CVC check or 3DS.

[1] https://www.moderntreasury.com/learn/what-is-fednow

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#566

Post by MBCook »

xvector wrote: post #561
dmitriid wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So does crypto It doesn't. Everyone who claims otherwise can't come up with a single credible example.

- not having a central payment processor know everything about you - buying drugs/porn/VPNs/etc in a country that has a backwards stance on them - anonymous donations - purchasing services (eg commissioned art) without revealing your identity - sending money to friends and family during hyperinflation/freedom from government (mis)management of currencies Freedom of speech (eg cryptography) is not worth much without t…

So…

- Not having anyone watch out for you

- Buying slaves/child porn/weapons in countries with a “backwards stance” on them

- You don’t need crypto for that. A lawyer could do it for you.

- See above

- Use any other currency that’s not undergoing hyper inflation

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#567

Post by osrec »

spicymaki wrote: post #409
Barrera wrote: post #225

This is the kind of pain that comes from trusting scammers and nincompoops about unworkable blockchain "scalability" fixes. Here's the sequence. Those dumb enough to ignore it are doomed to repeat the pattern. I'm probably getting some details wrong in this Rube Goldberg scheme, so feel free to correct. 1. Citing "Ethereum network congestion," Axie Infinity announces an ethereum side chain, Ronin.[1] 2. Ronin was a c…

This is exactly why crypto is such a disaster. Every week there is yet another scam where people losing their money. The feedback from crypto enthusiasts is well look at those idiots for putting their money into some scheme or you are not smart enough use this thing. Look "nobody" understands what you are talking about. These financial systems are inscrutable and the problem is getting worse. You are building systems…

Almost every criticism above could be applied to the current mainstream financial system too.

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#568

Post by michaelmarkell »

schemescape wrote: post #212

Does “gas-free RPC” mean just a regular non-blockchain endpoint?

No, In Ronin for a while there was no ether (they wanted free transactions) so they had a special rpc endpoint that could accept “free” transactions with gas priced at 0. They still process 4/9 of the transactions on ronin even though they introduced a paid gas now — RON

Re: $625M worth of ETH drained on Axie Infinity's Ronin Network

#569

Post by sincerely »

red_admiral wrote: post #62

Echoes of Mt Gox: when something meant to be a much smaller operation (such as a place to trade Magic:The Gathering cards) suddenly finds itself playing a much bigger game. It's like you agreed to temporarily store the Fort Knox gold reserves in your spare room, but still have the same ordinary lock on the front door.

Mt Gox was a place to buy MTGO cards, but had been closed for years before the owner reused the domain name to host the bitcoin exchange.
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