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SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

nasa.gov

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Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (well, Europeans) explored the earth when it looked quite similar to space exploration today. Year-long journeys with very little chance of survival, and no idea what was waiting on the other side. We ended up making some amazing discoveries (the new worlds) that turned out to be of vast economical benefits. Who says space exploration can't be similar. (Yes, there is a lot of controversy over colonialism that I wo…

The good thing about space is that you don't have to worry about the native people.

Let's hope someone with a similar view-point doesn't discover Earth, then! :D

Jokes aside, you are right, of course. We don't have to worry about environmental effects or native populations in the same way when dealing with off-World colonies on sterile worlds. That alone should provide some incentive for commercial exploitation of things like asteroids; at some point Earth will either run out of certain elements, or other factors will result in certain elements being more easily obtainable off-world.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#722
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High frequency traders will want the best connectivity humanely possible. It’s a zero sum game. If they can beat a competitor firm’s signals by the smallest fraction of a second, even a nanosecond, they reaps in the profits. So $100m for some better fibre? Go nuts!

High frequency traders do NOT want to be limited by the speed of light in a fiber - due to its refractive index (1.5 for ZBLAN according to Wikipedia) this is only 66% of the speed of a radio signal. Over 10km this amounts to an 11 microseconds difference - already significant for HFT. This is why they have been leveling hills to carve a (mostly, with minimal amount of repeater towers) line of sight path between NYC…

One could use hollow core fiber, which has much higher limits. Up to 99% of light in a vacuum IIRC.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SLS and Orion were developed in the 21st century, when there was no need for new basic science research, and their development costs are staggering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System#Funding_hi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)#Funding_his...

That's not because of NASA's poor work though, much of the cost bloat there was due to the legislation that dictated how those programs had to operate, like sole-sourcing components, requiring use of Space Shuttle components furthering vendor lock in, etc. It's not a testament to NASA's failings, its a testament to politicians' self-serving legislation.

Isn't this exactly the case for private space companies like spacex? Government agencies will always be strapped down with bureaucracy, and so be less efficient than private companies.

I've never seen anyone claim that NASA is incompetent.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#724
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- International travel (anywhere in the world in less than two hours) could be one of those things. - Asteroid mining

>in less than two hours plus or minus 48, depending on the clouds today.

Plus 4 for security, immigration etc...

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#725
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

livestream still relevant? Docking with ISS tomorrow morning? All the tests they are doing?

Yes, live broadcast until docking at 10:30am EST.

Dragon is now just a few meters away from the ISS (International Space Station)

to follow approach and docking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZsnKGV8TE

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#727
post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about what is so broken about the need for efficient and fast trade?

Volatility is the main concern [1]. Making trading decisions based on microseconds is speculation. How can anyone or anything reach an understanding of something as complex as markets in this short time? Other concerns include unnecessary waste and unfairness [2]. The point is that this is a zero-sum game that makes us invest in infrastructure that will soon get obsolete once someone else builds a faster infrastructu…

It is a speculation, yes. That does not mean it is not useful, or is harmful to the society.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's more of everything on Earth No there ain't. A single asteroid could have billions if not trillions of dollars' worth of precious metals (gold, silver, platinum) and would flood the respective markets of those precious metals (making them less "precious" and more commodities, which would be a massive boon for all sorts of industries). Even more common metals like iron and nickel are abundant enough to repres…

Most asteroids are worthless chunks or carbon, another significant portion are sort of dirty balls of sand and rock. The smallest portion are composed of any metals. Metallic asteroids are mostly iron and nickel and unlikely to be loaded up with precious metals. Any that would be interesting for mining would be in the asteroid belt which requires significant amounts of energy to reach in a reasonable time frame. You…

> Ceres does not currently have a space gas station on the surface.

Golly gee whittakers, really? I had no idea! Well that changes everything!

Obviously we'll need to build infrastructure. My point is that it's a worthwhile investment. You obviously seem to disagree, which is fine, but if all you're going to do is be needlessly condescending then this conversation is probably not worth continuing (but eh, it's a Sunday morning and I ain't got much else better to do, so why not? Happy to be condescending, too, if that's how you'd like to conduct this particular discussion).

> Also raw ore amounts don't mean anything without refining capacity. There's roughly zero of it currently anywhere off the surface of the Earth.

Golly gee whittakers, really? I had no idea! Well that changes everything!

> you'll spend billions to mine precious metals which will cease to be precious thus lose their monetary value.

Good. That's the whole point. These precious metals have vast industrial uses that are much more viable if they're, you know, not-so-precious. So what if the price of the metals themselves drops? The wealth you've created from these invigorated industrial processes will more than make up for it.

If you really did want to prevent this you can artificially restrict the supply, like diamond mines already do to keep diamond prices unnaturally high. I feel like that's pretty myopic, though.

> Kick up dust on an asteroid and it goes into orbit around it and takes potentially centuries to settle.

Then catch it, which is a thing, that you can do. The hard part is then putting that dust somewhere else (you'll probably want to compact it, and then put it back on or in the asteroid - tricky, but not impossible).

Or let it orbit free. Yeah, it's harsh on the equipment, but you can indeed build equipment to handle that (lunar and Mars missions already have to do this, albeit to a much lesser extent). I think you're overestimating the ability for that dust to really "orbit" anything besides the Sun; you do recall that asteroids have very very low escape velocities, right?

> That all just makes the venture more difficult and more expensive.

Which is offset at least somewhat by the lack of gravity making it much easier to dig tunnels (you don't have to worry nearly as much about structural supports) and get ore out of the asteroid (you're not fighting gravity).

> The differences between crossing the Sahara to find gold and looking for it in an asteroid are when you cross the Sahara there's air at the destination.

Golly gee whittakers, really? I had no idea! Well that changes everything!

> You can't really be taken seriously when you sort of hand wave the challenges doing anything in space.

Nowhere did I say that doing things in space is easy. All I'm saying is that they're possible and worthwhile to at least consider doing. You can't really be taken seriously when your only response boils down to "la la la YellowApple's stupid this will never work never mind the decades of research that has been done and continues to be done for this exact venture". Everything is "prohibitively" expensive until someone actually does it; I'm calling for us as a species to figure out how to do it, and a lot of the answers are right in front of us, and with some development can even be relatively affordable when considering the economic gain alone (let alone the scientific gain and the improved probability of our species surviving some catastrophe on Earth).

Like, if your main objection is "but but but it'll cost billions", we're already burning trillions in the US alone (public and private) on far more fruitless ventures. What have we got to lose by diverting some of those trillions to asteroid mining instead?

(To be clear, I don't expect you or anyone else to take me seriously, either. I don't even take me seriously. But I do have a select few strong beliefs, and the strongest of those beliefs is that humanity must expand on a permanent basis beyond Earth or else it is doomed to perish. It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but it absolutely must happen)

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#730

It is hard to convey how "sustainable" this feels to me. For the first time, humans have gone into orbit in a spacecraft that was designed from the ground up to be a commercial venture. All of the NASA missions prior to this have an ambience of "uneconomical but useful". Even the shuttle, which was supposed to be this cost effective space truck, turned out to be not even close. And the last thing I'm feeling is the a…

>> into orbit in a spacecraft that was designed from the ground up to be a commercial venture. If we are talking pure commercial travel, it is a vehicle without a destination. The ISS is definitely not a commercial project. There are lots of reasons for the ISS to exist, and they have changed over time, but it has never been a money-making venture. While the dragons certainly do come in under budget, they are a more…

Sporting events on the moon have the potential to be profitable, because of the scale of media.

We've got plenty of everything on Earth, but maybe it's more fun to play basketball in moon caverns? I can see billionaires paying to go dirtbiking on the surface, but that's not really so sustainable a market. Moonfruits could grow to enormous sizes and make tourists happy. But that's not an export product.

Tourism and sports. Makes sense in a post scarcity economy.

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