Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists • Hacker News Board

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#711

Post by qeternity » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 5:22 PM UTC

krige wrote: post #334

qeternity wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

Society told Van Gogh that nobody wants or will ever want his work. He killed (probably) himself out of depression and feeling unwanted, miserable.

Yes, this was empirically true at the time. Things change. And that does not invalidate my comment in the least.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#712

Post by qeternity » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 5:23 PM UTC

halls-940 wrote: post #315

qeternity wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

It's naive to conflate income as a clear signal of what society needs.

If you have any understanding of history, it's naive not to.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#713

Post by qeternity » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 5:24 PM UTC

alexpotato wrote: post #414

qeternity wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

Her work can be valuable, in money terms, even of the value of her work is less than the money needed to support her family.

Sure, and again, she should do something else then.

She isn't entitled to have a large family and work whatever job she finds fulfilling.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#714

Post by tt24 » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 6:23 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #668

tt24 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because one is consensual and the other isn’t.

Right, that's my point, unless you can work at a co-op, you have no say in how much value from your labor is extracted and given to someone else, and given the way society is designed, it's basically impossible to live without nonconsensually giving up the majority of your labor's value to someone else. Whereas with taxes, if you don't like them, you can elect a different politician. Look at the Americans, they do it…

You can work for a different employer that extracts a different amount of value. You can’t switch governments without paying exit taxes (in the United States).

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#715

Post by parineum » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

9rx wrote: post #708

parineum wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. I explained earlier why I don't think it would. The places with a housing "shortages" are the places where everyone wants to live. Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand. You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."

> Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand. If houses were able to be built freely then everyone would be able to build a house... Except , if you can't afford a used house, you most definitely cannot afford a new one. As before, time and materials are the real killer. The used housing market is merely a reflection of the cost to build new. Same reason used cars have risen so h…

> The used housing market is merely a reflection of the cost to build new.

The majority of the cost of a home in places with shortages is the land, not the home.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#716

Post by buzzert » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 6:55 PM UTC

jmye wrote: post #615

ryanjshaw wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder why the tax payers who care can’t contribute directly to a fund, and keep government out of entirely.

Because we use taxes as a process to crowdsource funding more effectively. That's literally the entire basis for it. Might as well ask why "only the taxpayers who care about a new highway can raise funds to buy it" and then we're back in some weird, system of no central government because someone can always claim "why not just like, let people donate money" because it's a simplistic cliche that appeals deeply to peop…

> we use taxes as a process to crowdsource funding more effectively

Effectively? It doesn't seem to me like most western governments allocate this funding "effectively" at all. How do we increase the accountability?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#717

Post by Cycl0ps » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 8:08 PM UTC

TomasBM wrote: post #591

EQmWgw87pw wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument makes sense, but a park has a measurable scope. We all want it to be X sqft, with Y trees, and it will cost Z dollars. Are you going to force artists to make the specific art that the community is in need of, or can they just do nothing?

Not OP, but posed like that, neither. Expect something? Yes. Enforce it? Not sure for the first tranche, but make it a prerequisite for continued funding. One big obstacle is, of course, how to define what to expect from each artist. For example, you can't expect the same level of output from sculptors and musicians. Another big obstacle is obviously the expected quality of output. I don't pretend to know the solutio…

A little late, but this is something that I've been considering a lot lately. When there's a limited resource (funding) how do you determine who will receive it?

For something like this I think a citizens assembly[1] may work best. Take all artists receiving funding and are NOT up for renewal. Select a number of them randomly to form the assembly. This assembly then reviews submissions from artists up for renewal and determines if they meet a minimum standard for funding to be renewed.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#718

Post by stemlord » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 8:45 PM UTC

lbreakjai wrote: post #426

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

The problem is, how do you define "art"? How do you define which art is worth subsidizing? Am I eligible if I doodle on a piece of paper once in a while? What about if I decided to expose a urinal? Or paint a can of soup?

you can't really fake the labor that goes into mastering a craft any more significantly than one can fake labor at a white collar job, let alone some level of institutional involvement that any professional pursuit would end up with (i.e., showing a work at the gallery on main st or giving workshops at the community center), so this isn't actually that challenging of a question in practice. even with highly conceptual work there's still an involved studio/research practice to audit

if your artistic practice is truly so abstract that you can't prove labor by any material means then you probably just won't get subsidized for it.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#719

Post by raffraffraff » Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 9:21 PM UTC

urschrei wrote: post #520

raffraffraff wrote: post #249

My wife is an artist and she absolutely hates this. For a start, it's a lottery. 2000 randomers who call themselves artists will get no-questions-asked income regardless of their skill or importance as artists. We have people who are full time carers for family members who get less money in their allowance, and it's means-tested. So you can be a millionaire heir / heiress, independently wealthy and still be eligible…

My partner is an artist and she absolutely loves this. For a start, it's a lottery. 2000 people who meet very broad but generally fair eligibility criteria ( https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-culture-communications-a... ) will get no-questions-asked income regardless of their skill or importance as artists, these being qualities that are both highly subjective and not fixed in time. So you can be anyone – rich, poo…

Ask her if she would prefer the government actually spend the money in ways that make it easier for arts / crafts people to actually make their own living. You know, instead of a handout. My wife doesn't think her self esteem would improve if she could only survive on a handout.

Ask her how much it costs for a stall at Showcase every year. Why does the RDS have this whole area sewn up? Why don't the government sponsor events like this? Why is the craft council absolutely useless? They can't organise anything, they just wait for gougers to set up ultra expensive events and then tag along.

Ask her if she'd prefer subsidised rent for her business in a decent location, in a city or town? Remember before Templebar got gentrified, it was an absolute shithole, decaying buildings that should have been condemned and torn down, and yet because it was cheap, it became the place for artists, designers, jewellery makers, cooks to set up, and became the most interesting part of Dublin. Sky High rent drove away all but the big chains, and now it's soulless. What do the small makers have now? Nothing.

What about subsidised shipping? Right now An Post are massively increasing the cost of their flat rate small parcel shipping within the country. Why invest in that, and make it easier for makers to ship their products at a reasonable, predictable price?

What about actual help with the "running a business" part, that many artists suck at?

I dunno. Giving free money to a few people, without even checking whether or not they need it, strikes me as unfair, lazy and short sighted. Why bother doing anything at all if you're getting free money? But reduce the cost and difficulty of running a business... That actually encourages it.

Teach a man to fish vs give him a fish.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#720

Post by komali2 » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 1:38 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #707

komali2 wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you not realize how completely selfish that is? It's completely out of touch with the whole dynamic of people working to produce goods, and other people just getting those goods without effort. The vast majority of our wealth is already stolen by megalomaniacs so they can buy big useless yachts. I'd give up twice as much if it meant the local crackhead got not just a house, but a PS5. At least the crackhead is f…

This is an insane perspective. I just gave them life, vs death. I just gave a little of myself, so they don't starve, aren't going to freeze to death, and are safe. Yes, I don't want them comfortable. You think this means I wish suffering, when I just helped them? Absurdly selfish. "Why not give more!! How dare you only prevent starvation, giving housing, and ensure safety!! What's wrong with you!", you say?! Blather…

> If you want to discuss the economic system and the rich, that's an entirely different conversation. Discussing the working person's need to house those that aren't working?

It's the same conversation. The only reason the burden falls upon us at all is because the tax system is fundamentally broken. No reasonably organized resource allocation algorithm would allow so many people to hoard so much of our wealth. If our resources were allocated more efficiently, it wouldn't just be the homeless that the state could house comfortably, it would be all of us. After all, Singapore manages it, and they also have a mostly broken tax system, just slightly less broken than other places.

Preventing a stranger's death from starvation and exposure has been a bare minimum for human decency in many cultures for thousands of years. You've read about it in the Greek and Roman stories you had to read in school, where a god shows up disguised as a beggar. Native Americans had similar stories, so did Peloponnesians, Chinese, areas in Africa, northern Europe... It's a modern degeneration of our human values that this is considered such a big ask. We used to accept that we're responsible for each other's well being.