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Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

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Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#711

Post by auronsavant »

noah_buddy wrote: post #426
sepisoad wrote: post #391

An iranian expat here. I have been following the news closely, mostly getting my data from my friends in Iran before the internet shutdown and after it was (sort of) lifted. The death toll is way above this number, you have to consider the fact that Iran is a big country with many small cities, and in my city alone (which is very small and rarely has any protest going on) many people have died (i don’t have the exact…

It’s very strange to go “why isn’t the left doing anything about this conflict when they cared so much about Palestine?” My government doesn’t fund Iran.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe anyone who says this. Israel has a military expenditure above Turkey's with almost a tenth of the population. They could do everything they did and then some with no Western backing.

The number of progressives shutting the fuck up in a scenario where Israel does the same thing they're doing but without Western funding is I imagine approximately 0.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#712

Post by kolbe »

mishaker wrote: post #336

awesome ! more than 2 years into genocide in Gaza and not a single word on HN. And now a fake news published by a zionist website (iranintl.com is financed and supported by Israel) gets on the first page ! so disgusting.

This entire comment section has a lot of polarizing statements that are unverifiable and can hide behind the fog of truth. Yours is not one. Yours is easily verifiably false:

https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+genocide+site:news.yc...

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#713

Post by dan_mctree »

breppp wrote: post #569
throwaw12 wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they see Mullah’s regime as one of their biggest allies when it comes to attack West/Israel/Free market you are looking it differently, I disagree, I am one of those who supported Palestine. Reason we are silent, because our governments already did what's needed from our side: heavily sanctioned the Iran, if I go and protest, what do I ask? To sanction Iran? They would laugh at me. Obviously, I am not going…

> if I go and protest, what do I ask? To sanction Iran? They would laugh at me. That's a very weird take I see repeated over and over again You don't protest only to get your government to do something, the protests against Israel expectedly did not meaningfully change US relations with Israel yet you still presumably went out you can express solidarity with Iranians, you can protest the massacre, or just make people…

Well you see that take over and over because that's what people actually believe in and feel and it's almost weird it has to be repeated over and over. Most protestors are not solidarity protestors. Most protestors show up when they're angry, when they feel like there's something obvious that can be changed and when people around you refuse to do the obvious thing. If you don't have these factors, you don't really get big protests.

For example I don't believe the US saw particularly large scale anti Germany protests surrounding WW2. Before the US joined the war people didn't really know what to do, while after they joined the war there was little disagreement. The Vietnam protests were much larger, because you have the internal conflict and something obvious to do: stop fighting.

People showed up for Gaza protests because they were angry and because they felt people around them, and particularly their governments were complicit in events. People do not show up for Iran because everyone agrees it's terrible but no one really knows what to do, so who are you going to be yelling at on the streets and what would you yell? Additionally events in Iran, relatively speaking probably triggers more hopelessness/confusion than anger, these are not exactly the best emotions to inspire protest

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#714

Post by decimalenough »

lukan wrote: post #329
decimalenough wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there is plenty of telling, and the largest (only?) massacre outside Beijing was in Chengdu, with 8 to 400 people killed depending on who you believe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_protests_of_1989 There was plenty of rounding up student leaders and executions afterwards, but I don't think even the wildest anti-communists would claim a death toll in the thousands for this.

"Actually, there is plenty of telling" To this day, the official version is, nothing happened there and then. If you talk about it online inside china, or using chinese services outside of it, it will automatically be blocked. So yes, people did get out, but till this day they will have to face persecution or other disadvantages and some want to to visit family again or not have them face consequences. In other words…

The demonstrations and crackdowns happened in the largest public squares of China's largest cities, in front of thousands of eyewitnesses, and the dead had friends and families who lived to tell about it. So while we don't have exact numbers, we do have reasonably accurate ballpark estimates. For Tiananmen, the best guess is on the order of a thousand dead, with high end 2x that and the official government figures 200-300.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#715

Post by thisislife2 »

nickff wrote: post #701
thisislife2 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jizya tax on non-muslims in many Islamic empires was never a "discriminatory" tax. This is a common anti-muslim trope and an example of distorting history by considering it through modern political lens. In most muslim empires, this tax was only imposed on non-muslims who wanted to be exempt from serving in the military but still be a citizen of the Islamic empire they were part of. Those who chose to join milita…

There were a variety of other discriminatory measures in most of the Middle-East; many applied to religions other than Judaism as well. Another notable one was the limited access to the legal systems, along with the inferior legal status non-Muslims were relegated to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world I also think it’s absurd to pretend that taxing people who do not tithe to one’s favored f…

I have no idea what country's legal system you referring to. My broad understanding is that most Islamic empires allowed the minorities to retain their own personal laws on some legal matters (marriage, divorce, inheritance etc) as Sharia laws were largely Islamic, for muslims. From today's modern perspective many things that was done by many former empires of the past would be problematic. Like I said, you will only get a warped view of history if you try to analyse it by applying modern principles. By and large, for their time, Islamic empires were largely egalitarian towards their citizens. (The Ottoman empire's secular history undermines sharia claims - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/oct/07... ). If you want to judge them by their worst examples, you can ofcourse "prove" the worst that you imagine of them.

> Imagine Utah taxing non-Mormons because they don’t tithe

Mormons don't pay their tithe to the government. In the Islamic empire, it was the government that collected the 'tithe' from the muslims after calculating their wealth. So you can imagine how disgruntled muslim citizens would have been, every year, when the tax collector only came to collect money from them and not from the non-muslims. It was this kind of social unrest that lead to the imposition of the Jizya on non-muslims.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#716

Post by nickff »

thisislife2 wrote: post #715
nickff wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a variety of other discriminatory measures in most of the Middle-East; many applied to religions other than Judaism as well. Another notable one was the limited access to the legal systems, along with the inferior legal status non-Muslims were relegated to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world I also think it’s absurd to pretend that taxing people who do not tithe to one’s favored f…

I have no idea what country's legal system you referring to. My broad understanding is that most Islamic empires allowed the minorities to retain their own personal laws on some legal matters (marriage, divorce, inheritance etc) as Sharia laws were largely Islamic, for muslims. From today's modern perspective many things that was done by many former empires of the past would be problematic. Like I said, you will only…

From the linked Wiki: “Restrictions included residency in segregated quarters, obligation to wear distinctive clothing, public subservience to Muslims, prohibitions against proselytizing and against marrying Muslim women, and limited access to the legal system (the testimony of a Jew did not count if contradicted by that of a Muslim). Dhimmi had to pay a special poll tax (the jizya), which exempted them from military service, and also from payment of the zakat alms tax required of Muslims.”

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#717

Post by geraneum »

mrtksn wrote: post #461
sepisoad wrote: post #391

An iranian expat here. I have been following the news closely, mostly getting my data from my friends in Iran before the internet shutdown and after it was (sort of) lifted. The death toll is way above this number, you have to consider the fact that Iran is a big country with many small cities, and in my city alone (which is very small and rarely has any protest going on) many people have died (i don’t have the exact…

> It’s a shame that all those activist that would shred themselves for Palestine are absolutely quite about Iran That's not a fair position, those people don't have the duty to make every wrong right. As an Iranian expat how much of your time and money did you invest in fixing Iran? Apparently there are 2 million Iranians in US and just over a million in Europe and a million more in the rest of the world. What did th…

> What did the 4 million strong Iranian diaspora did on that matter

The progressive’s version of “why don’t you go back to your country and fix it” in response to someone who’s clearly asking for empathy.

This is hilarious.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#718

Post by derelicta »

CMay wrote: post #492
derelicta wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IHR is CIA-backed, and are thus prone to inflate these counts to justify an invasion.

The CIA is definitely operating in Iran. Nobody reasonable will deny that. Mossad is too, guaranteed. How inflated their numbers are, I don't know, but even just the confirmed numbers of dead both officially and unofficially are too high. At this point they need to split the country so people who want to live differently can do so. Maybe that would prevent needing to bomb the Iranian government into oblivion.

Splitting the country in two? Okay, but then you show them how to do it with YOUR country as example. I'm sure your freedom loving soul won't mind leading the way.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#719

Post by thisislife2 »

tptacek wrote: post #642
thisislife2 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Israel-Palestine: - History of Settler Colonialism in Palestine - https://www.globalresearch.ca/history-settler-colonialism-pa... - Israeli Settler Colonialism Is The Obstacle To Peace - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israeli-settler-colonialism-i... - From Balfour to the Nakba: The settler-colonial experience of Palestine - https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/balfour-nakba-settler-... 2. Iran-US/UK: - How The C…

You wrote "Palestine is a settler-colony of Israel". Nobody on either side of the conflict believes that. Your response here is a non sequitur.

Are you talking about grammar? Would you prefer that I write Israel is a settler-colonial state?

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#720

Post by direwolf20 »

nickff wrote: post #694
direwolf20 wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they have states in 1209 BC? I'm pretty sure the modern Israel state is a modern invention, that just happens to take its name from former states. The modern state of Greece isn't the one from Jesus's time either.

Well, if you're only going to count modern states, the only previous one to occupy that area was the Ottoman Empire. After that, there was a British Mandate, but that wasn't a state. Modern states only started after the Treaty of Westphalia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia

Does the modern Israel state have continuity from the Ottoman empire?
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