Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#711

Post by simiones » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 10:05 AM UTC

p1esk wrote: post #693

simiones wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but we need to base our predictions of the future on our experience of existing similar technologies to have any credbility. For example, if I predicted that phones the size of a coin are the future, you could meaningfully say "in my experience, bigger phones are actually more sought after, so I don't believe your prediction".

if I predicted that phones the size of a coin are the future My phone is on my wrist currently (Apple watch), I left my iphone at home. To me your prediction would have been correct (for now). If you insist on basing your predictions on existing experiences, think of your sunglasses: light, comfortable, stylish. I predict that 10-20 years from now your sunglasses will offer great AR/VR experience, most likely through…

> My phone is on my wrist currently (Apple watch), I left my iphone at home. To me your prediction would have been correct (for now).

Your Apple Watch is still dependent on your iPhone. You're also unlikely to be browsing the web, watching YouTube, or browsing social media on your watch, and these have been the biggest factors for smartphone adoption by far - so I don't think such a prediction works. We can also see that the market for smartwatches is dwarfed by the market for phones, and this trend shows no sign of reversing.

> I predict that 10-20 years from now your sunglasses will offer great AR/VR experience, most likely through improvements in retinal projection technology.

The problem with a glasses form factor is that it fundamentally can't create enough contrast for a good quality image, especially not for VR - that requires blocking out most light coming into the eye, which no additive technology can do. I do believe that some equivalent of a smartwatch could work very nicely in a glasses form-factor (i.e. a device that acts as an accessory to your main computing devices, for small specialized tasks).

I still don't see any plausible way it could replace phones or laptops/tablets with any technology visible on the horizon. So I'm not saying AR/VR won't have a place or even be wildly successful - just that I don't believe they will ever be "the future of computing" in any reasonable sense, say like the smartphone was to the PC.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#712

Post by JuanPosadas » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 10:43 AM UTC

dahwolf wrote: post #358

cm2187 wrote: post #305

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My experience of the same has been the opposite. Friends I showed it to telling me "interesting" then moving on and never mentioning it again. And I felt the same. It went to storage less than a month after I received it.

Same here. I organized a trip to a VR center for the entire team at work. Everybody had fun, but more like going to a theme park. Nobody ever talked about it again or bought one, just zero interest. And these are tech people.

I went to a VR center with coworkers, all the games felt like tech demos or low effort minigames ported from the Nintendo Wii.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#713

Post by bluepod4 » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 3:38 PM UTC

lucubratory wrote: post #579

bluepod4 wrote: post #525

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Is it? I see homeless people who aren’t even stealing get kicked out of places like Target all of the time.

I think you upset a lot of people on HN who maybe don't like the idea that some small part of how homeless people are excluded from society could be applied to them.

True.

Also, I guess people forgot about all of the “Whites Only”, “No Negros Allowed”, and “No Irish Need Apply” signs at storefronts too.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#714

Post by p1esk » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

simiones wrote: post #711

p1esk wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I predicted that phones the size of a coin are the future My phone is on my wrist currently (Apple watch), I left my iphone at home. To me your prediction would have been correct (for now). If you insist on basing your predictions on existing experiences, think of your sunglasses: light, comfortable, stylish. I predict that 10-20 years from now your sunglasses will offer great AR/VR experience, most likely through…

> My phone is on my wrist currently (Apple watch), I left my iphone at home. To me your prediction would have been correct (for now). Your Apple Watch is still dependent on your iPhone. You're also unlikely to be browsing the web, watching YouTube, or browsing social media on your watch, and these have been the biggest factors for smartphone adoption by far - so I don't think such a prediction works. We can also see…

Again, you’re associating AR/VR with a specific implementation (headsets, glasses, etc), based on your experiences with existing technology. That’s a very short sighted way to think about the future. AR/VR is the future of human computer interface, as a paradigm, as a “reality 2.0”.

Smartphones became widespread 15 years ago, and will be obsolete 15 years from now. We will still see an old lady in 2040 pulling out iPhone 23 Ultra Super Pro Max, just like we still occasionally see an old lady in a supermarket pulling our her checkbook.

Both screens and retinal projections will be seen as historical curiosities 50 years from now, just like we now look at VHS tapes and compact disks. Provided we have not turned into unimaginable cyborgs by that time, surely any information that can be consumed by our brains would be fed directly into our brains - why would you want to rely on our unreliable, deteriorating and severely constrained senses to consume information - most (or even all) of which by that time will be created or transformed by an AI?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#715

Post by nomel » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:25 PM UTC

hyperthesis wrote: post #698

nomel wrote: post #448

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I've showed several "professional computer users", who sit behind nice monitors all day, my Quest Pro virtual screen setup. They've all said it's too blurry/font is too large/not enough screen space (which are all the same, from lack of PPD). So, the Quest Pro is unusable to them, due to PPD. If the Vision Pro is actually retina, then that's good, but I don't think that's the only reason they wouldn't want to use it.…

Thanks - so it's a game-changer (if they've done it). BTW I read somewhere they are adding a top strap.

I would say claim that use in open office spaces will be the real "killer app". I think being able to cut out all the distractions, and focus, will be extremely valuable to many.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#716

Post by codyb » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

midoridensha wrote: post #598

luma wrote: post #565

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There's gotta be a lesson here: if your customer is ready to hand you money, best you just go ahead and take it without further delay.

Is that the lesson though? It seems people are falling over themselves to buy stuff at Apple stores despite these annoying and awful experiences, and Apple is the most valuable company in the world. It seems the lesson is to treat knowledgable customers like morons using patronizing staff and try to upsell them as much as you can, even if it makes them leave the store in disgust.

Well, to be fair, they don’t know who’s knowledgable and who’s not?

I just order my stuff online, walk in, and pick it up. Not sure that it’s super frequent I have a “I need this hardware in 30 minutes or less” situation

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#717

Post by jameson71 » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 3:12 AM UTC

rvnx wrote: post #642

dan-robertson wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve not had such a terrible experience but I’ve had the experience of being confused trying to work out how to buy something and the shop assistant being almost surprised that someone wanted to buy something instead of just looking at things. It was smooth enough after that but I would typically order online after that (which was mostly fine except for an annoying case where they would only deliver if I showed up in…

They are designing it as a show-room where you can buy items, not a self-service shop. More like a car dealership.

Because everyone loves buying at car dealerships?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#718

Post by jerojero » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 8:08 AM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #678

jerojero wrote: post #485

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I wonder how representative you are of the average consumer though? I imagine their pricing structure works well to upsell people on average, which is why they have maintained it for long. Also, why would someone like you even go to the store; I had no issues whatsoever buying a macbook from their website. No reps, no nothing, I set my specs and clicked buy and a few days later had my product. I think most people wit…

> wonder how representative you are of the average consumer though? But Apple's target demograhic isn't the average person. Apple is particularly dependent on image, and one would think that they would want every customer to leave their store with a story about how awesome they are, to ensure that they keep their image polished.

Except pretty much every American has an iphone? How many americans have macbooks? Ipads? So it's most definitely for the average american. I mean, believe it or not, that's what the average american wants.

Their image is one of exclusivity, but products such as the iphone, macbooks, ipads are actually mass-market products. It's quite a remarkable thing, that the most luxurious phone you can get from Apple is what... 1500 dollars? That's affordable when you think of other luxuries, how expensive can a watch get?

I think saying apple doesn't make products for the average american consumer is really falling for their marketing. They make products that are on the upper-end of what average people can afford but they put a lot of care into presenting these as clean as possible so that people feel like they are buying into luxury. They're not in most cases.

In terms of the phone market, foldables are probably the most luxurious products right now. A foldable will run you 1800-2000 dollars for a product that you know is not designed to last more than 2 or maybe 3 years. In terms of laptops, how many people really spec out their macbooks? I would say people probably buy in the 1000-1500 range and laptops are long-lasting products. A gaming laptop can easily cost 2500+ dollars and will depreciate much faster.

So, I respectfully think you're misreading Apple's demographic. Their demographic is pretty much every adult in America and they tap onto that aspirational mindset to achieve it; which is why people who can kinda see through the bullshit might come out with the sensations that are being described in these comments.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#719

Post by midoridensha » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 8:22 AM UTC

gizajob wrote: post #464

dcchambers wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apples pricing structure is also annoying nowadays too. As soon as one specs out and bumps a laptop, one suddenly finds that they may as well get a different laptop, ie once you bump up a MacBook Air, you may as well just buy a Pro, until all of a sudden your £999 purchase idea has turned into £3000 and a debate about AppleCare. Their pricing structure on basically all of their product lines is absolutely perfect f…

Well, it's not exactly perfect because I was in the mood to simply buy a basic Air, until I was pretty well talked out of it by sales staff, so instead of an easy £1099 in the till, in their attempt to turn that into £2500, they got £0. That isn't good business. Also, the tedium of nowadays knowing that all the products will be bumped in spec in 9-12 months means that instead of excitement, buyer's remorse has alread…

>in their attempt to turn that into £2500, they got £0. That isn't good business.

It IS good business. It's proven by the company's stock price and financial results. For every customer like you that leaves in disgust, there's 100 more that are happy to be upsold like this and empty their bank accounts. Consequently, Apple is the most valuable company in the world.

>Also, the tedium of nowadays knowing that all the products will be bumped in spec in 9-12 months means that instead of excitement, buyer's remorse has already kicked in before reaching the store, for the savvy consumer midway though the product cycle. Again, not the result effective capitalism should be going for.

Yes, it IS. Again, the company's financial results speak for themselves. Customers are happy to buy new Apple stuff every year, and the company is profiting enormously.

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at all the idiots that buy into this.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#720

Post by midoridensha » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 8:22 AM UTC

froggit wrote: post #557

gnicholas wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems unintuitive, but the fastest way to get an iPhone when you're standing in a store may be to pull out your phone and make a purchase on the website. This won't always be the case (I've never been told I needed an appointment to buy an iPhone, and I've bought them at several different Apple Stores over the years), but if you run into an intransigent employee, give this a try. At the very least, the employees s…

It kinda seems the fastest way to get an iphone would be to go to a store where you can actually say "i want to buy an iphone from you immediately" and they respond with "i want to sell an iphone to you immediately" whereupon your money and their iphone are exchanged. It's sort of shocking to hear about going to a store, attempting to purchase something they are selling at the asking price, and being told "I don't fe…

>It's almost violating somehow, maybe like seeing capitalism get violated or something.

No one's being violated here.

>I mean, what if you went to the grocery store and they told you they don't feel like selling food to you at the time but they might have some appointments open. Hunger doesn't have a snooze button to delay it until the time of your appointment.

You don't go to the grocery store if you're hungry (in fact, that's the worst time to shop for groceries). If you're hungry, go to a restaurant.

Anyway, if there's a fancy and horribly overpriced grocery store in town, and they treat customers like this, and those customers just give in and make appointments and come back later, how is the grocery store operating badly?

Normally, such a grocery store would quickly go under, as customers would go to a competing grocery store. But with Apple, that never happens. Apple customers will keep coming back for more.

Some people (apparently many people) actually like this kind of buying experience. I imagine some ultra-high end brands of clothing and cars treat people similarly.