Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#711

Post by angelzen » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #671

angelzen wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-lasting original antigenic sin is well documented at least for dengue. "Original antigenic sin has the advantage that a response can be rapidly mobilized from memory. However, the downside is that in some cases, such as dengue, the response is dominated by inferior-quality antibody. In influenza, original antigenic sin has been shown to reduce the effectiveness of vaccination (13, 34, 51). In dengue, the effect…

your link only reports on primary and secondary dengue. There is no analysis of how long of a gap there was between primary and secondary, and whether that length of time matters. I don't see any evidence whatsoever in that link of a "long-lasting" original antigenic sin.

From the paper I originally linked: "Infection with one serotype likely elicits lifelong immunity to that serotype, but generally not against the other three." Dengue researchers routinely talk about lifelong original antigenic sin effects in dengue. You seem to want to split hairs and ask instead "but which papers specifically established the duration of the original antigenic sin in dengue". I can't help you with that beyond linking to the seminal Halstead 1983 paper. From there on you are on your own.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6824120/

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#712

Post by eksapsy » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

javagram wrote: post #528

dolni wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary -- welcome to the world trust building. If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. And if the thing you know isn't actually known, like how effective the vaccine really is, that goes double. Notice that doesn't require you to "know the truth from the beginning in one step." It requires the people in charge to show some restraint. You only get so many opportunities to be…

“ If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. ” So hiding and covering up information is the way you think scientists should build trust, rather than being open and also clear about the limitations? The lack of trust has nothing to do with scientists publishing data and everything to do with hucksters who misinterpret or lie about it to spread anti-vaccine panic or “government control” c…

The lack of trust in these situations seems to come more from how many people perceive the world of science. Many people seem to think once science has an answer it can't be wrong, and it's difficult to change, when it's more or less the complete opposite. That's what we've been taught in school. No one has been taught about how many studies turned out wrong or are easily misleading, or how to study papers and make research.

I blame education for that, for it doesn't properly teach you how to understand science. Science is taught like a Bible, when it should be taught as something people created and it's error prone.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#713

Post by sharken » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:45 PM UTC

jaspax wrote: post #330

mitchdoogle wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We get flu vaccine every year, what's wrong with getting vaccinated forever?

Who's "we"? I don't intend any hostility here. But I have never gotten a flu vaccine in my life, and it seems deeply silly to me to get a yearly shot just to cut down on the chance of mild illness. A quick poll of my acquaintances reveals that almost no one in my social circle gets flu shots, either. This makes me wonder whether the antagonism to mandatory COVID boosters is just an intensification of an existing divi…

It is exactly that, a divide between people who already get yearly jabs and people who don't.

What is new is that those who get yearly jabs, now wants to mandate the other group to get yearly jabs.

This is what I never want to see happen, we should have as much control as possible over our own body.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#714

Post by javagram » Sun, Dec 12, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

lambdaba wrote: post #654

javagram wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, vector vaccines and mRNA vaccines also create t-cell immunity , not just antibodies. It’s not just “inactivated vaccines” that do so.

I did not know that. Thank you. Possibly in lesser quantities though? It is only related to the spike protein in the case of Covid. As I understand the natural immunity has a different fingerprint even with covid?

"natural" immunity would create antibodies and immunity that may be related to non-spike proteins of COVID-19 (I believe this depends on your own body's response and the severity of infection exactly what is generated).

The vector and mRNA vaccines only expose the spike protein (in various forms), so they don't generate immunity to other proteins of COVID-19.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#715

Post by sharken » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:04 AM UTC

q1w2 wrote: post #556

1cvmask wrote: post #2

This is the scientific meat of the press release where it claims a 25 times neutralizing antibody titers against the Omicron strain with a third dose of Pfizer-BionTech: The sera were collected from subjects 3 weeks after receiving the second dose or one month after receiving the third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. Each serum was tested simultaneously for its neutralizing antibody titer against the wi…

This is the meat in the meat... > Neutralization against the Omicron variant after three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was comparable to the neutralization against the wild-type strain observed in sera from individuals who received two doses This means that the vaccine is still effective - but very clearly LESS effective than it was against earlier variants. We need UPDATED booster shots each year. Th…

Those who wants booster shots can take them, while those who don't want to are free to do just that.

Same as with the flu, which of course means that we do away with Corona passport and the other limits we set up.

The end goal is to treat Corona exactly the same way we treat the flu, ie. your personal choice will not lead to restrictions.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#716

Post by arisAlexis » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

bigodbiel wrote: post #631

ohyes wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, there is no evidence for any of your claims.

Risk of blood clotting / thromosis (VIIT) with adenovirus vector and Peri / Myocarditis with mRNA based are known risks, even if extremely rare overall (but worrying for specific groups; <50 females and <30 males respectively)

You should compare with risk of clotting vs covid disease.

Re: Pfizer and Biontech provide update on Omicron variant

#717

Post by hcknwscommenter » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #711

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your link only reports on primary and secondary dengue. There is no analysis of how long of a gap there was between primary and secondary, and whether that length of time matters. I don't see any evidence whatsoever in that link of a "long-lasting" original antigenic sin.

From the paper I originally linked: "Infection with one serotype likely elicits lifelong immunity to that serotype, but generally not against the other three." Dengue researchers routinely talk about lifelong original antigenic sin effects in dengue. You seem to want to split hairs and ask instead "but which papers specifically established the duration of the original antigenic sin in dengue". I can't help you with t…

I'm not splitting hairs at all. The point that infection with one serotype elicits lifelong immunity to that serotype only, is not original antigenic sin (OAS) at all, much less lifelong OAS. To make sure we are discussing the same thing, OAS (to me) refers to the effect that infection with (or vaccination against) one serotype makes it difficult/impossible to obtain any useful immunity to a second serotype. Lifelong, means that this effect is very long-lasting (years). If dengue researchers routinely talk about such, then you should be able to produce one paper that demonstrates it. Certainly Halstead does not although it contains an interesting reference to and discussion of the earlier work by Eisen, suggesting OAS lasting 7 months in rabbits. However, my larger point is this: a strong enough OAS effect to actually blunt vaccine effectiveness is rare. In fact, other than Dengue and RSV, have we really every seen proof of it at all, never mind whether it is long-lasting? For example, Influenza vaccines infections do show a slight OAS effect, but vaccination still works very well.