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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#711

Post by [deleted] »

pydry wrote: post #707
jrsj wrote: post #231

My problem with politics at work isn’t so much that it’s politics but more that it’s always idiotic performative horseshit. Like please stop pretending you want to “help” a group of people who disproportionately hold the jobs you are automating out of existence etc. More often than not it has more to do with a small number of individuals trying to get more power for themselves than a genuine desire to help anyone.

A lot of the time the performative bullshit is the company itself trying to make changes that garner approval and attention but that don't cost it anything significant. One example would be GitHub keeping its contract with ICE but changing the master branch to main.

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#713

Post by bzbarsky »

lanstin wrote: post #525
betwixthewires wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my problem. That's arrogant of you to assume that I don't care about people and injustice. But the fact is, we are talking about absurdity in the workplace right now. We aren't talking about equal pay for black people or women. We aren't talking about equal consideration of homosexual people for jobs. When we talk of it hypothetically that's how it is framed so as to paint everyone tired of it as an evil bigot,…

No the issues are more like if you send a resume in with an African American name or photo it is way less likely to be called for an interview than the same resume with a whiter name. Same for male/female etc. Even house appraisals and “call the cops or offer to help” as subject to the same, present day, biases.

It _really_ depends on your industry. And time period. Studies from 20 years ago (which is when a lot of the studies people commonly cite for this were done) only tell us so much about conditions now.

Again, varies widely by industry.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#714

Post by bzbarsky »

zdragnar wrote: post #209
newsclues wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical race theory applies its lens to everything. School is racist, police are racist, government is racist, of course work and the office will become targets.

I am not sure I understand why people are downvoting / disagreeing with this. The pevasiveness and permanence of racism- indeed, the use of the term "whiteness" as a proxy for all social ills- is basically the core tenant of CRT.

"Tenet", please, not "tenant".

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#715

Post by jessedhillon »

ncpa-cpl wrote: post #495
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

From the Recurse Center manual: If you see racism, sexism, etc. outside of RC, please don’t bring it in. For example, please don’t start a discussion about the latest offensive comment from Random Tech Person Y. Everyone who comes to RC should have the same opportunity to focus on programming, and people from oppressed groups often find discussions of racism, sexism, etc. particularly hard to tune out. There are many…

The excerpt quoted here sounds reasonable and pleasant, which is why I was surprised when I clicked through and found what appears to be the social rulebook of hell.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#716

Post by lazyeye »

wpietri wrote: post #374
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

Is "the kind of person you hire" likely to share your politics? Because we are talking about workplaces where there is diversity of thought (if thats your kink)

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#717

Post by throwaway8689 »

lucian1900 wrote: post #643
visarga wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seeking equality and justice Equality of outcome or opportunity? That matters. I'd support one but not the other. I lived under Communism until 1989 and I know what equal outcome looks like after decades of having its run. There is no incentive to excel and all the incentives to conform because equality comes before merit. After some time the whole society slides into poverty. What I don't like is to put ideology o…

It’s disingenuous to blame all problems our countries had before 89 on socialism, while ignoring the constant blockade and attack from the Western European countries and the US.

Didn't the blockade work both ways?

I'm not blaming everything on socialism though. Russia was not very developed before the revolution, and it suffered terrible losses in WWII.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#718

Post by collaborative »

gryfft wrote: post #682
nick-of-time wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics is an expression of your moral values. It's always been an important part of a person.

People who huffily decry "politics" also tend to have political beliefs which they feel are apolitical. Examining and unpacking those beliefs is "political," however, so that the net result is "I just don't want my politics questioned or examined, even when it affects other people."

Believe it or not there are plenty of people who live their lifes outside of politics. They don't vote, they don't have any favorites in the political arena

Politics is divisive and agressive. Some people are put off by the easy narratives of good vs bad

Only dictatorships have historically wanted to permeate every aspect of life with politics. The USSR used to say "everything is politics". There are plenty of examples... politics needs moderation. I wish that people could vent their passions with football like in the old days. At least everyone knew no one was "really serious" about why their team deserves world domination

There is a time and place for politics (not at work). God knows how many times I've had to put on my earphones just to disappear from the latest office brawl about politics

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#719

Post by puszczyk »

furyofantares wrote: post #448
smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I perceive the cartoon yellow emojis to be white, an alternative interpretation never occurred to me at all. The first time a black coworker gave a black thumbs-up reaction on slack, I noticed I didn't want to +1 it. I didn't identify with it, it didn't feel like it was coming from me. This was a strong reaction and totally unexpected, and it was a "holy shit" moment as well, because I suddenly imagined how excluded…

> The first time a black coworker gave a black thumbs-up reaction on slack, I noticed I didn't want to +1 it. I didn't identify with it, it didn't feel like it was coming from me.

Why wouldn’t you identify with a +1 from a black (or other race/ethnicity) colleague?

The question is a bit aggressive, but if possible don’t consider it like that — I live in an (unfortunately rather conservative) part of the EU and TBH I’m often surprised with the race/diversity activism. I usually support them, if nothing else then because I’m clearly ignorant and not affected by the challenges some of my coworkers have to put on with.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#720

Post by gnopgnip »

mk81 wrote: post #256
madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because "no politics at work" isn't neutral, it means supporting the status quo by way of defining what counts as "politics". Is calling someone by their preferred pronouns, or wearing a mask during the pandemic politics?
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