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“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#711

Post by kristofferR »

8note wrote: post #698
anon7725 wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no more committees 1/3 of the company had joined this D&I committee, which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did. The employees proved that they couldn’t be trusted to self-organize into a committee and keep it on topic.

You could also see the company as being wildly off track? 1/3 is a lot of people

And which employer/CEO would support efforts to impose hiring quotas, vendor/speaker blacklists and other limitations of their leadership of their own company?

Lack of diversity is certainly a big problem in society at large, but do "minorities" really have problems getting hired in the hot developer job market? Seems to be more of a supply issue than a demand issue perhaps.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#712

Post by bogota »

andkon wrote: post #262
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

I’m not seeing that at all. I have seeing 90% of people let go at my previous job (sample size of 50) pick up jobs within a month. A few obviously had a harder time but the market right now doesn’t seem to be hard at all.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#713

Post by _RPL5_ »

baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

>People don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions.

>[People] need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about

>I like that people want to express themselves and improve the world we live in, but they need to find a better place to do that.

Political parties & elections are instruments designed to do just that. It's actually mildly alarming that people are so jaded they forget about these (?).

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#714

Post by ummonk »

nomdep wrote: post #637
acjohnson55 wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pretty much nails it. The "politics" angle has been revealed to be a red herring by the subsequent accounts of everyone involved. The same contentious discussions would have happened had this policy already existed! I guess you could say the policy gives the founders a ban hammer to swing to end discussions they don't like. Separated from their justification, the 6 policies represent an assertion that Basecamp l…

1/3 of the staff that believes in things like that the “It doesn’t have to be crazy at work” title is ableist (see the Jane Yang post). Even when refers to a situation and not to a person. How radicalized you have to be to lose your capacity for critical thinking like that? If anything, Basecamp is a much better place to work now, without them

People don’t have to all agree with the Jane Yang post to hate the new policy and decide to leave.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#715

Post by spaetzleesser »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #713
baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

>People don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. >[People] need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about >I like that people want to express themselves and improve the world we live in, but they need to find a better place to do that. Political parties & elections are instruments designed to do just that. It's actually mildly alarming that people are so jaded…

The US parties aren't really a place to express yourself. They are highly corrupt. It would be nice if the US system allowed for smaller parties to be viable.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#716

Post by shard972 »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #713
baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

>People don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. >[People] need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about >I like that people want to express themselves and improve the world we live in, but they need to find a better place to do that. Political parties & elections are instruments designed to do just that. It's actually mildly alarming that people are so jaded…

They don't represent us?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#717

Post by StanislavPetrov »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #216
baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

"Workplace is inappropriate for politics" is a really ahistorical stance to take. All the things that you enjoy nowadays (8 hr work day, 5 day work week, no child labour, etc) came about as a result of organized politics at the workplace.

There's a difference between being completely apolitical in the workplace and being engaging in 24/7 political advocacy that infects every single issue you touch. I used to work with a guy who was a devout Christian. He would wear his cross, and everyone once in a while would say something like, "with God's blessing". That's okay. He didn't construct an altar next to the cash register and give sermons while zealously trying to convert every customer and employee and demand that we tithe 10% to the church. If he did that, we would have told him that it his behavior was not appropriate for work. It wouldn't matter how passionately he believed in his religion, or how critical he insisted it was that everyone was "saved". Its just not appropriate behavior for the workplace.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#719

Post by ardit33 »

8note wrote: post #701
baron816 wrote: post #181

What I think is lost in the conversation here is that people don’t really have organizations they can go to to advocate their political positions. People have their families, their jobs, and maybe a couple of friends and that’s about it. They need an outlet to push the ideas and causes they care about. The workplace is one of the few places where they can feel like they’re having an impact, but that’s not really appr…

Doing any work fundamentally pushes some political view. Mostly today it's neoliberalism in some form. I think an obvious alternative is to expect employees to actually support neoliberalism as a job qualification. Same as if you were working for an evangelical church, you'd expect people to try and convert everyone to Christianity

say what? Someone cleaning houses, or working as a cashier is pushing political views? Is a McDonalds worker putting 'big beef' industry ideology forward?

Most jobs have nothing to do with politics as most people don't have a true choice/luxury to be choose. Often people have to work, or starve/be homeless.

Most jobs out there are not political. That includes building a simple email client.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#720

Post by Mountain_Skies »

gkop wrote: post #638
christophilus wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see a Jehovah’s Witness coming up to my door, I pretend to not be home. I’d really hate to be forced to have that same feeling at work, but be unable to escape it. If you can’t do your job without evangelizing your coworkers in some form or fashion, maybe you should reconsider your career choices.

Please don't equate human rights activism to a religious movement.

Why not?
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