If I were interviewing and someone came to me from the Basecamp buy out, it'd be an incredibly clear red flag and no hire decision. If someone cares more about political activism at work than the well being of the company, it's not someone I want on my team.
“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
611–620 of 1001 posts
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#612Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…
One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…
That’s not my experience watching friends go through the full cycle. The tech employment market for talented programmers appears to be the hottest I’ve ever seen and I worked through the late 90s tech boom where literal used car salespeople were being hired into tech only to be back selling cars by summer of 2000.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#613Earlier quoted context omitted.
Management took a stance against the employees. Management cancelled their employees, removing their platform to talk about internal politics. Framing this as 'these people' vs Basecamp is ludicrous. It's 1/3 or more of Basecamp vs. Basecamp's management. Important people in important roles, entire teams. They are this company. Or were.
> Management cancelled their employees, removing their platform to talk about internal politics Good. What exactly is the problem here?
How can you not talk about politics at work? What happens if you want to discuss a disputed nation? I hope TSMC isn't a supplier.
Banning politics is impossible because everything in life has some hand in politics. When they say it can't be discussed, in the context of what is being discussed, it's really just a ban on the topics that management don't want to discuss.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#614Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…
I think it would depend on how much I liked my job. My sense is that DHH is just a terrible boss. Note the "changes" [1] are not just "no politics" but also "no more committees" (of any kind at all; that is, no authority or responsibility except individually along line-of-report hieararchy), no more 360 degree reviews (no way to formally give feedback to your boss), and no more bringing up past decisions you disagree…
> “no more committees" (of any kind at all; that is, no authority or responsibility except individually along line-of-report hierarchy)
It sounds like there was a self appointed DE&I committee that had proposals for every area of the business. That doesn’t strike me as a healthy dynamic.
There’s a reason successful employee co-ops are rare and kibbutzim don’t exist anymore in anything close to their original form.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#615I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…
I disagree. It’s about professionalism. Flame wars at work create a hostile environment where quiet voices are silenced. It’s the same reason HN bans political flame wars.
DHH is the guy who defended porn as a suitable metaphor for a CouchDB talk. I don't think professionalism is his north star.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#616I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…
I disagree. It’s about professionalism. Flame wars at work create a hostile environment where quiet voices are silenced. It’s the same reason HN bans political flame wars.
Right. The part where the leaders started a flame war, dredging through old posts of employees to publically discredit them was very hostile.
Has nothing to do with "politics", or at least those that were trying to be banned.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#617Earlier quoted context omitted.
bingo. I think they realized the boss didn't respect them and wouldn't tolerate dissent, and that therefore they didn't respect the boss. More than about "talking about politics at work".
So employees should be able to do raunchy stand up comedy about farts and sex then? Some topics are unprofessional in a work environment. Politics has become one of them.
DHH himself famously defended raunchy technical presentations like the CouchDB porn one, and also wrote about not wanting to censor himself to blend in:
http://archive.ph/2013.06.25-012232/http://david.heinemeierh...
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#618People are gonna wanna make this about politics, but my sense is that it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about it. I don't think it's really even about the specific policy. Note that the "changes" [1] also include "no more committees" (ie, no more feedback/authority/responsibilty except through the line-of-report hieararchy), "no bringing up past decisions you disagre…
> no more committees
1/3 of the company had joined this D&I committee, which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did. The employees proved that they couldn’t be trusted to self-organize into a committee and keep it on topic.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#619People are gonna wanna make this about politics, but my sense is that it's really just about the owners of basecamp are crappy tyrants to work for, that's about it. I don't think it's really even about the specific policy. Note that the "changes" [1] also include "no more committees" (ie, no more feedback/authority/responsibilty except through the line-of-report hieararchy), "no bringing up past decisions you disagre…
> no more committees 1/3 of the company had joined this D&I committee, which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did. The employees proved that they couldn’t be trusted to self-organize into a committee and keep it on topic.
> which apparently felt that it’s scope included everything that the company did
Eh? Source? Elaborate.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#620The problem with no religion and no politics is that it’s impossible to draw a line on what is politics or religion. Let’s say you hire a gay employee, there very existence is political. Are they wrong for mentioning that they are gay (no), but to some at the company that may be trying to advance their gay political agenda. Idk what the solution is, but just blanket “No religion/no politics” is just a way to say you…
> Let’s say you hire a gay employee, there very existence is political. With a few exceptions, I consider it very unprofessional for an employee or colleague of mine to start discussing their sexual preferences, gay or straight. I wouldn't ask for the same reason. > ... just blanket “No religion/no politics” is just a way to say you like everything the way it is and don’t want to feel uncomfortable I think you are ju…
Then a wedding ring is unprofessional.