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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

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Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#711

Post by dasudasu »

seizethecheese wrote: post #617
johnwalkr wrote: post #543

Wow with these comments. You going to the gym is not saving the economy. Yes, we can't shut everything down but you'd think the article was about shutting down grocery stores or the stock market. And by not doing your part, your whole community could be stunted for 2 years. Also congratulations for not caring about a 1 in 200 chance of death (pretty high by the way) because you're healthy and passing on the risk to s…

> congratulations for not caring about a 1 in 200 chance of death (pretty high by the way) because you're healthy and passing on the risk to some vulnerable person (probably your parents or a school teacher) with a 1 in 10 chance of death. This is wrong and misleading. You're quoting the average fatality rate for "healthy" people, but the distribution doesn't look like that at all. Then, you cherrypick 10% out of now…

True, but that's not as if death was the only bad outcome. Not that we can even pretend to know the long-term effects yet, but anecdotally it seems that some people are already experiencing them, which include lung scarring and neurological symptoms.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#712

Post by alicemaz »

opportune wrote: post #566
johnwalkr wrote: post #543

Wow with these comments. You going to the gym is not saving the economy. Yes, we can't shut everything down but you'd think the article was about shutting down grocery stores or the stock market. And by not doing your part, your whole community could be stunted for 2 years. Also congratulations for not caring about a 1 in 200 chance of death (pretty high by the way) because you're healthy and passing on the risk to s…

I’m part of some online fitness communities and it’s insane the rationalizations people will use to go back to the gym. I have even heard of people driving 3hrs+ or staying overnight to go to out of state gyms with less restrictions. Which is actually very terrible on a macro level. That said I do think it’s possible for gyms to adapt to be covid-safe by moving equipment outside, restricting the max number of people…

yea my gyms here (texas) have been really good about this, either mandatory masks or open air, mandatory distancing, wipe everything down (my muay thai gym got like a metal exterminators tank for disinfectant they just spray everything with), etc etc. the article makes the point well, that if you close everything down, people will just do it anyway, so it's better to just have it in the open and under control and punish bad actors when they crop up

local gyms (as opposed to chain/bigbox) tend to be extremely tight-knit communities, which means people want to keep each other safe and will go out of their way to do it, within reason. most people don't care about everyone in their city in abstract, but they do care about members of groups they derive camaraderie from. hell of a lot safer than reopening restaurants, imo

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#713

Post by dasudasu »

thewarrior wrote: post #575
volkk wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is unnecessary fear mongering without any actual statistics/studies linked. i've seen those studies linked, and they're definitely concerning, but using words like "many" without any backing is just harmful and just creates more paranoia/panic. highly recommend /r/COVID19 (stay away from /r/coronavirus) for well moderated discussions that aren't politicized/sensationalist and are based on research/science/number…

Yes because we don’t know yet. Doesn’t mean it’s fearmongering. SARS patients had side effects for 5-10 years.

SARS literally punched holes in the lungs of strongly affected patients according to the WHO. That's permanent, not 5-10 years.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#714

Post by rconti »

cm2187 wrote: post #706
svnpenn wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has twice the population of the United States. Yet despite this, United States has 4 TIMES the cases per day. Europe can relax because they worked hard in the beginning to get everything under control. The US never did that, most states (like my home state of Texas) did a half-assed closing for 3 weeks, so the numbers never really got under control.

It's not that clear that a lockdown helps. NY closed the earliest in the US but was the hardest hit nevertheless. It has now mostly reopened and cases aren't going up. Chances are we may have reached herd immunity there. I have seen recently that serology tests in Italy have shown the same outcome for people who were locked down than essential workers who were not locked down (and mortality stats in the UK told a sim…

Second or third earliest, and there was early community spread in NY, when CA was locking down and NY was ignoring it for a week or two. And it's home to the densest city. And I think it's uncontroversial that CA lockdowns helped.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#715

Post by thelastname »

roywiggins wrote: post #680
thelastname wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know but perhaps recent social unrest could have something to do with that? Europe is getting tired right now, and I'm not talking about economies but about people. You can't lock people for months and expect them to to obey indefinitely. It's unsustainable. It's more reasonable to apply some proportional restrictions than to lock everything down. Eg. limit users of a gym and require disinfection. That's how…

NYC saw substantial social unrest and didn't see any COVID spikes; marches and demonstrations have extended for months and the test positivity rate remains low. I believe it's the decision not to reopen indoor dining and bars, and to mandate masks, that saved NYC the resurgence that the rest of the country has seen. You absolutely can control COVID even during the current period of social unrest; the US largely chose…

That would provide masks effectiveness quite well. I hope we(or our governments) all may learn on others experiences.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#716

Post by base698 »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #653
zozin wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lock downs were premised upon preventing hospital systems from being overwhelmed. We accomplished that relatively easily, at least in the United States. However, politicians and bureaucrats, unwilling to let a good crisis go to waste, have moved the goalposts so much that now the unspoken policy seems to be that a single infection/death is anathema and that everything should be done to prevent it. I don't remembe…

Your views seem completely detached from reality. The only reason hospital systems were not overwhelmed was due to the continued lockdown + social distancing policies. Every state that went ahead and tried to ignore reality and open up for business rapidly found itself facing the very same issue again with hospitals being near full and in some cases having to turn away patients. Some sources: https://www.azfamily.com…

^ that was more sensationalism after the death rate started to flatten. The ICU rate then declined after following the death rate. AZ never locked down like CA did.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1291552713004777476

^ Those charts so ICU rates dropping in TX which was supposed to be "Overwhelmed" just like AZ.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#717

Post by rconti »

arxv33 wrote: post #623
johnwalkr wrote: post #543

Wow with these comments. You going to the gym is not saving the economy. Yes, we can't shut everything down but you'd think the article was about shutting down grocery stores or the stock market. And by not doing your part, your whole community could be stunted for 2 years. Also congratulations for not caring about a 1 in 200 chance of death (pretty high by the way) because you're healthy and passing on the risk to s…

I travelled all over Europe past two months and I must say Europe is quite laxed. And there cases haven’t really gone up. Pretty much every outdoor cafes in Europe were open with a few exceptions and I didn’t see much difference other than people wearing masks and social distancing between tables. I think in US everything is polarized and politicized. To the point that wearing masks is somehow considered against free…

The initial mask guidance was pretty clearly wrong, and there was plenty of griping at the time that they were trying to conserve supplies for front line workers (and rightly so) by spreading FUD. Huge numbers of people were wearing masks back then, against the guidance, because it was pretty obviously better than not wearing one.

In my "bubble" the experts have been proven right, time and again. Again, the mask thing is about the only piece of bad information I can remember being spread.

And yet, all over the internet, 6+ months into this, we have a bunch of people who deliberately misinformed themselves for months, complaining that "the experts have been wrong over and over again".

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#718

Post by seizethecheese »

WD-42 wrote: post #710
seizethecheese wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> congratulations for not caring about a 1 in 200 chance of death (pretty high by the way) because you're healthy and passing on the risk to some vulnerable person (probably your parents or a school teacher) with a 1 in 10 chance of death. This is wrong and misleading. You're quoting the average fatality rate for "healthy" people, but the distribution doesn't look like that at all. Then, you cherrypick 10% out of now…

That’s still whole numbers for anyone over 60, and significant numbers still for anyone below it. Have you ever seriously contemplated death? If you have, those numbers don’t seem very good, not at all. Not to mention these are stats for DEATH. Meaning these are the worst case scenario. Dead. The chances of getting seriously ill, like major suffering, are much higher. Would you want to experience that? Would you wish…

Yes, I've contemplated death. Have you?

Here are the chances of dying in a year, for a given age, from actuarial tables:

25 year olds: 0.16% chance of dying

35 year olds: 0.2% chance of dying

45 year olds: 0.3% chance of dying

55 year olds: 0.7% chance of dying

65 year olds: 2% chance of dying

75 year olds: 3.5%

85 year olds: 10%

95 year olds: 26%

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#719

Post by donor20 »

kbenson wrote: post #567
donor20 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid…

> I think health professionals lost a megaton of credibility in claiming masks don't help, to not wear masks, or that masks can only help reduce transmission not infection. Other countries went all out on masks - with great results. I think for the most part health professionals answered specific questions about specific types of situations or types of transmission, and the media runs with overly broad statements whe…

I was "educated" by health professionals that said masks do not help you avoid infection, despite showing paper after paper that they do (PPE is so fundamental to infection control the whole health professional - anti-mask things was so random).

That includes my county health department (I asked if they would arrest me if I put a mask on or didn't take my mask off on a crowded transit vehicle - they said they would STRONGLY encourage me not to wear a mask on crowded transit vehicles if I was "healthy" despite my higher level of risk and that I shouldn't believe "disinformation". A month later they issued a mask mandate!)

Masks are cheap. For 10 cents to $1 you can save a life - perhaps cheapest intervention out there.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#720

Post by LegitShady »

nanomonkey wrote: post #311
LegitShady wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you start training weighted exercises it's very difficult to get similar workouts with bodyweight. If I'm squatting 250lb it's going to be tough to simulate that with my bodyweight and I'm not likely to be able to load the reps the same way.

You can work on your form, by slowing down the squat, using whatever weights you do have on hand (a broom handle or "yoke" with 5 gallon buckets filled with water/sand), dumbbells, kettle bells or weighted vest. You can also work on your fast twitch muscles and explosivity by jumping from a squat. Doing squats with a weight in only one hand also improves your core technique. Now is a great time to work on your neurom…

If you work on your form for 4-5 months, you aren't working on your form you're just losing gains.

I'm not working out with buckets full of liquid or materials thats hard to clean up.

Dumbells, kettle bells, and weighted vests are all off topic on the reply given the person was talking about doing bodyweight exercises.

Jump squats are great but not the same thing as properly weighted squats.

Neuromuscular fitness all well and good, but how many months now? My nervous system is great, what I'm missing is load.

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