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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#711

Post by fzeroracer »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #577

I hate how the idea of reopening has split down political party lines. This is definitely not the time for partisanship. Now that Republicans have come out as pro-reopening, San Francisco will be the last city to reopen in the country. 0 COVID-19 infections will be too many.

Just over a month ago, you were talking about Japan's reduced rates of COVID-19 cases thanks to their mask-wearing culture compared to western societies.

Would you like to revisit that topic before we talk about reopening anything? Or how about Hokkaido facing another wave of cases due to reopening too early? Because it seems to me it's only a matter of time for any country that's currently open to see a spike in cases regardless of their culture.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#712

Post by illumin8 »

collectedparts wrote: post #474
khazhoux wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why "We're in this together" is just not true. Oprah has it better than me right now. But we both have it way better than my hairdresser (who knows if her salon will survive). And all three of us have it better than a Silicon Valley janitor. I'm filled every day with deep, deep sadness for everyone whose refrigerators are running out with their bank account at zero.

Not to be pedantic but "Silicon Valley janitor" (at least if it's for a big enough tech co) _might_ be doing OK. Various tech companies have publicly committed to paying their own hourly staff and subcontracted workers like food service / janitorial at full standard pre-shutdown rates: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/big-tech-commits-to-paying... (Though I have no insight into whether or not they've actually follow…

This is true. I work for a unicorn and we've committed to paying all of our contract staff until the office reopens. This includes making special payments to the caterer, even though we've cancelled regular lunch and dinner meal service, just to pass through to their employees so that they can shelter in place and not have to be at risk of either getting sick or not being employed.

It also includes all reception and building security staff, even though they are employees of the building management, and not employed by us.

I hope more people know that SV startups, and especially unicorns, are really leading by example in their treatment of the low-wage service workers and contractors that work in their offices.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#713

Post by aaronblohowiak »

nostromo wrote: post #649
sjg007 wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah nobody understands that we can print money. It’s the easiest solution and every other country is doing it already.

Hope you’re saving now for your $10m one bedroom condo and your child’s $5m state university education.

No inflation arises from injecting more money in the system if the amount injected is offsetting a reduction in economic activity. As activity increases, you take money out of the system (Raise rates)

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#714

Post by smcameron »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #688
adrr wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wuhan is a good example why community spread of near 0 is the primary goal. The restaurants have opened but are struggling because people are still afraid of getting sick and have changed their behavior. White collar jobs will keep telecommuting if there’s a risk of community spread. No hr/leg department wants the liability. The secondary effects are decrease in demand on automobile related businesses like gas statio…

I don't follow the example. If people in Wuhan are still avoiding restaurants, it can't be because they haven't reduced community spread enough - the city's reported no new cases for weeks.

It's because people are afraid. Fear is not perfectly rational.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#715

Post by clairity »

rtkwe wrote: post #625
nradov wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original order was never based on any sound science to begin with. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad policy. But it was a faith based policy, not evidence based.

What’s not sound science about separating people to slow down the spread? It’s the only real option for anything like a quarantine with such a long incubation time (and as recently discovered asymptomatic infections) and the absolute lack of tests we had at the beginning of this outbreak... It’s simple math that reducing the number of people in contact with each other would reduce the number of people that got infect…

> “ What’s not sound science about separating people to slow down the spread? It’s the only real option...”

no, that’s the nuclear option, not a surgical strike, much less the only option, and based on an insufficiently precise perception of the problem.

the mechanism of spread can be crudely described as spitting into each others’ mouths, not standing nearby, touching, or breathing in the same room. with the problem sufficiently, if crudely, framed, it should be easier to imagine other ways of preventing spread besides locking everyone in their abodes. physical distancing by itself, for instance, is probably sufficient for most folks. for “essential” workers, you might add a mask.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#716

Post by in_cahoots »

thelean12 wrote: post #710
in_cahoots wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn’t the metric incorporate the risk each activity entails? A good example is gardeners. Gardeners work alone or in teams of two, can obey social distancing, and generally don’t even talk to their clients on a regular basis. What is the threat here? What is so magical about the word essential? On the flip side large alcohol stores like Bevmo can stay open and serve hundreds of customers a day because they sell c…

"What is so magical about the word essential?" Are you a real account? Essential is essential. Food. Gas. Home goods. Infrastructure. Anything that supports essential business. Alcohol is certainly an outlier, but there are plenty of reasons for it to be essential. Alcoholics would die, for one. Black markets would spring up, for two. Gardeners are not essential. No one is going to die because they can't get their ga…

Alcoholics can go to their local Wal-Mart, Target, or grocery store. They don’t need specialty liquor stores.

What about weed dispensaries, are they essential? More essential than dentists, pediatrician visits, and the accompanying vaccinations? Because the latter have all been closed. How are construction workers essential when gardeners aren’t?

‘Essential’ is in the eyes of the beholder, it seems.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#717

Post by pinkfoot »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #621
ceejayoz wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In India in particular, the lockdown has so far caused more misery than the virus itself... I mean, that's the point, right? Heart surgery hurts more than chest pain, but it's intended to prevent the heart attack.

Sure, but the implementation was still absurdly bad. For example, by imposing a harsh lockdown on cities with no plan for migrant workers, the only thing they could do was head home to their villages, ensuring the virus would be distributed widely across the country.

Where do the migrant workers normally sleep?

Answer: In the cities they chose to leave.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#718

Post by antpls »

greendude29 wrote: post #354
greendave wrote: post #144

The problem is that the shelter-in-place rule is already limited in effectiveness due to a very lengthy list of exceptions plus many people not observing the spirit of the rule. Compliance will only drop over time as people see that 1) Their actions are having no obvious impact and 2) There is no clear end in sight. If the primary goal of extending the order is to give local governments time to build out infrastructu…

> The problem is that the shelter-in-place rule is already limited in effectiveness I've mostly read that the "control" we have over covid-19 now is due to the SIP. Can you source your claim?

One way would be to look at Sweden's situation in a few weeks. They didn't impose lockdown on citizens.

Granted, lifestyle in Sweden and infrastructure may be different than the rest of the world.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#719

Post by throwaway1777 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #633
gdilla wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? That was the point. It's better than 40% of the population becoming infected at the same time AND the hospitals totally collapsing.

I'm sorry you misunderstood. ~20% was my upper bound, ~0 the lower bound, and my opinion that we should find a middle ground.

20 isn't actually the upper bound though

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#720

Post by tayo42 »

tbrock wrote: post #642
tayo42 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's because nothings different then when it all started. If we open everything up we'll just see new cases again

So what is the plan for re-opening then? If we continue to shelter in place we just push the curve out instead of flattening it. We need to start reintroducing people to society at a measured pace to actually flatten it. Don’t misunderstand me, pushing the curve out has tremendous value in that we can better prepare but it also has a tremendous cost. How many business and livelihoods will be ruined because we couldn’…

Gavin Newsome gave his criteria for reopening California, it doesn't require a vaccine.

Having people die in large numbers is always worse then some people going through tough times. It's unfortunate our national government is incompetent and making it political.

If the city is great it will bounce back. The bay area isn't the only place going through this, the whole world is

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