Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

amazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

711–720 of 747 posts

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#711

Post by closeparen »

biocomputation wrote: post #706
closeparen wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reverse side of the incumbent and established having unlimited rights to protect their quality of life is that the young have none. The young are also feeling overwhelmed by the cost of living, and are starting to question whether tenure really confers a special moral status that makes the most superficial elements of your quality of life (perception of crowding, architectural taste, ease of parking) more importa…

This isn't about age, and I'm not sure why you're even framing it that way. The crowding, costs, and congestion in Seattle have increased very significantly with Amazon. There have been very ugly social side effects as well. Amazon's employees, most of whom are out-of-towners, don't need to live in Seattle as much as the people whom they're displacing. Basically, a lot of the Amazon transplants could work remotely or…

The reasons this sort of thing happens are the reasons humans organize themselves into cities at all. Turning off the growth spigot while maintaining everything else in working order isn't a lever that policymakers have.

What they do have are ways of dealing with population growth that lead to drastically less displacement.

Sure, no out-of-towner needs to live in Seattle specifically. New entrants to the workforce do need to live in a city with job growth in their industries, and all of those (for software development) are having this conversation. Could change if remote work becomes more available.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#712

Post by closeparen »

biocomputation wrote: post #707
closeparen wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of your employer has nothing to do with your contribution to housing demand. A million employees of two-person startups have the same effect as a million Googlers, assuming similar budgets.

Interesting argument strategy. You pose something that will never happen in Seattle (a million employees of two-person startups) with something that actually has happened (Amazon). If you're a transplant who works for Amazon, then it's because of a choice. You came from somewhere where you lived in a community with people you knew and who knew you. You don't need to be in Seattle. People who are from Seattle need to…

>You came from somewhere where you lived in a community with people you knew and who knew you

Sure. College, which ends. After that, returning to your hometown is only possible if you're privileged enough to be born somewhere with a decent local economy, and even then, chances are you'll be moving from family-oriented suburbs to an "up-and-coming" urban neighborhood with other young adults... same set of issues. Or you got priced out of the Bay Area, or your hometown's economy finally shrank to below the level where it can sustain you, etc.

> A lot of us don't want to leave our families or watch while our communities (or surrounding) communities are destroyed by waves of outsiders who know nothing about the area and who are only here for career/money.

There is nothing an American city can do to privilege its natives relative to other Americans. Privileges and Immunities Clause. What you can do is rent control + plan and zone for growth so that it's an increase in population, instead of a displacement.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#713

Post by johan_larson »

nikanj wrote: post #19
chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

According the housing crisis, there's absolutely no buildable land left anywhere in the Greater Toronto region.

Of course there's land. You just have to convert low-intensity use to high-intensity use. Go east on Bloor past Spadina, and you'll find plenty of two-story commercial buildings right on a subway line. Any of those blocks could be redeveloped into skyscrapers.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#714

Post by startupdiscuss »

jimbokun wrote: post #570
startupdiscuss wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But CMU has been producing world class CS grads for decades now, and some % do stay to start their own ventures, and yet Pittsburgh is not (yet) in the same league as even the "Next Silicon Valley" list cities. (Seattle, LA, etc)

First, there will never be another "Silicon Valley". It's one of a kind. Second, categorizing Seattle or LA as some kind of "up and coming" business area is disingenuous. Seattle has always had Microsoft, now also Amazon, and I'm sure many companies spun off from former employees of those. LA is the second biggest city in the US, with all kinds of businesses and industries there. It's not trying to be the "Next Silic…

I note that all three points you make:

1. I agree with and 2. Don't contradict anything I said

The question at hand is whether there is reason to believe that Pittsburgh's future growth will outperform its past growth because of CMU's output.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#715

Post by agentultra »

leilacc wrote: post #579
agentultra wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I'd see with putting a campus in Toronto would be that the transit infrastructure is bursting at the seams. Underfunded public transportation, expensive and underfunded regional transportation, and congestion along all major routes during the day. Along with the sky-rocketing cost of living there you'd filter out a lot of candidates or force people to commute over long distances on a choked network. YYZ i…

> a large portion of our talent does head South for the opportunities. I'm sure a large portion of that (myself included) would strongly consider coming back if there were opportunities like HQ2 in Canada. And fwiw I'm always pleasantly surprised by the TTC when I go back to visit.

You should read about the overcrowding!

I’d like for there to be more interesting opportunities and challenges here. Doing what I can.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#716

Post by fceccon »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #439
lurker10000 wrote: post #132

If you haven't seen this yet, this gambling site has Atlanta, GA / Boston, MA / Austin, TX as the top three choices for HQ2. http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&ev_type_id=2271...

The cumulative odds on this site add up to larger than 100%. Austin (3:1) - 25% | Boston (3:1) - 25% | Atlanta (3:1)- 25% | DC (10:1) - 9% | Pitt (10:1) - 9% | Nyc (12:1) - 7.5% | Toronto ( 14:1) - 6% We're already at greater than 100% (106.5%). And there are 13 more cities with >= ~5% chance. It's pretty tough to have any faith in this site or their odds. Could've been an interesting data point to look at though.

Yes, that's standard and it's called overrounding. If the odds were to sum to 100% then the bookmaker would make no profit. Betting exchanges such Betfair have books closer to 100%.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#717

Post by i_cant_speel »

usaar333 wrote: post #605
quacker wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cities that already have high rents (New York, Austin, Chicago) I was curious about this. I live in Austin, and don't think the rent is particularly high there. I just wanted some data. Looking at rent prices on one website in particular ( https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Austin ) and using Austin as the baseline: Less expensive candidate cities: - Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 43.54% higher than in Columbu…

And TX lacks a state income tax, meaning disposable income will actually be higher in Austin than the numbers above imply.

When a state doesn't have an income tax, doesn't that imply that they're getting those tax dollars from elsewhere?

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#718

Post by ashelmire »

mozumder wrote: post #408
southphillyman wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context that might further illustrate OP concerns: -Philadelphia already has major funding issues despite several unpopular taxes like the wage tax and soda tax -Recently went through a huge gentrification cycle spurred in part by a 10 year tax abatement given to new construction or rehabs -The city has already given huge tax incentives to another major corporation, Comcast. What you have is a city that recently…

Do you think the city would be better off without Comcast employees there? This is where more subtle analysis makes all the difference. Comcast doesn't seem like it would be a high-end workforce. I doubt they do any R&D there.

I do have a number of friends working as devs for Comcast, and I've recently been approached for a role doing dev work there as well. This is the HQ, so this is where I'd expect the bulk of technical work to happen.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#719

Post by ashelmire »

neilc wrote: post #597
Retric wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon and those workers will still consume city services. City's don't make a profit on average, so while those workers may make above average wages it's unlikely to make up for the overall lost revenue. Picturing 1000's of workers is overblown. Amazon does employ a lot of people, but in a highly distributed fashion and their expansion is not going to be huge. On top of that these are all large city's where +/- a fe…

> Amazon and those workers will still consume city services. City's don't make a profit on average I'd be very surprised if an Amazon worker making, say, $160k consumes more in government services than the sales/property/income taxes they are paying.

Amazon workers in Philly aren't going to make 160k. Tech salaries are much lower here than on the west coast, much lower than NY and Boston as well.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#720

Post by ashelmire »

vkou wrote: post #599
nyokodo wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the cost of being economically successful. That's because there is more competition for workers which drives up salaries, and for living spaces which drives up their cost. So even if you don't work for Amazon you're likely to benefit from the more competitive marketplace.

> That's the cost of being economically successful. This is a cost disproportionately borne by low-income renters currently living in a city. If they have a choice, why should they pay it? > That's because there is more competition for workers which drives up salaries, and for living spaces which drives up their cost. Amazon workers will always outbid locals for housing. Unless 50,000 housing units will be built in t…

Philly is economically vibrant and has an affordable housing shortage (although with the number of units currently being built, this might change in a year). The closer you are to jobs, the less affordable. Wages here are depressed compared to other US cities, however.
Post reply on HN