Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#561

Post by wfo » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #520

wfo wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is terrifying how this power is being wielded. Cities try to compete to see who can be more obsequious and subservient to corporate interests in the hope that they win some "victory" -- the company moving to their town -- which in the end does very little for the actual city or the people in it. It is just an impressive line item on the mayor's resume when they try to move up in politics, "I got Amazon!" Seattle h…

TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.

Are you a software engineer in one of these cities struggling to find a job?

Would you take one at Amazon, knowing that it's one of the worst software jobs out there because of horrible working conditions?

Would you last significantly longer than the average 1 year turnover rate at Amazon?

If you said yes to all these questions, your response makes sense. Congratulations, you are the .25% of the population that my argument doesn't apply to and I'll gladly note you as an exception and admit my argument was a generalization, though a reasonable one.

edit: It's also worth noting that I don't blame Amazonian transplants to Seattle themselves, I find them wholly sympathetic and I think it's sad these people are blamed for the state of affairs: rather, the company, that draws so many from outside, makes no effort to acclimate them to local culture, works them to the bone so they have no time to do so themselves, and provides nothing for the city to aid in the overcrowding, traffic, and housing crises they have created is to blame.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#562

Post by Retric » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

nyokodo wrote: post #482

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

Unless Amazon is going to be paying $0 in tax or will be given tax credits in excess of any tax it will pay, neither of which I gather is the case, then how would this fail to deliver a net increase in tax revenue for the city? The 1000s of employees are not getting any tax breaks either so that'd also have to factor into the calculation. I don't think cities are acting against their own self interest in these negoti…

Amazon and those workers will still consume city services. City's don't make a profit on average, so while those workers may make above average wages it's unlikely to make up for the overall lost revenue.

Picturing 1000's of workers is overblown. Amazon does employ a lot of people, but in a highly distributed fashion and their expansion is not going to be huge. On top of that these are all large city's where +/- a few thousand workers is not that big a deal.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#563

Post by vkou » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

jzymbaluk wrote: post #527

nyokodo wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Amazon is going to be paying $0 in tax or will be given tax credits in excess of any tax it will pay, neither of which I gather is the case, then how would this fail to deliver a net increase in tax revenue for the city? The 1000s of employees are not getting any tax breaks either so that'd also have to factor into the calculation. I don't think cities are acting against their own self interest in these negoti…

Not to mention, those thousands of highly paid employees are going to be buying houses, renting apartments, buying cars, groceries, haircuts, etc

Which will drive up the cost of life for people who currently live in Philadelphia and won't work for Amazon. It will, however, vastly enrich their landlords.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#564

Post by appstateguy » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

0xJRS wrote: post #461

JKCalhoun wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Raleigh, NC is in the Research Triangle?

The other way around, RTP is inside Raleigh, it sits between Raleigh and Durham

RTP doesn't sit within Raleigh. Addresses that sit within the park (like GSK, or IBM) are within the cities of Durham, maybe some in Morrisville, and some simply "Research Triangle Park." The Triangle as a whole (including the Raleigh, Durham, & the Park) put in a bid to Amazon, so presumably by "Raleigh" they really mean the whole Raleigh-Durham/Triangle region

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#565

Post by astrodust » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

prklmn wrote: post #521

astrodust wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Americans are "pissed off" that their American cars are made in Canada? They don't even know where their stuff is made any more. Toyota makes cars in Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, Alabama, West Virgina and Mississippi, but they're an "import". Ford makes vehicles in Mexico and Canada but they're "domestic".

Your point is valid, however no car factory built recently has garnered a fraction of the publicity/public interest that HQ2 has. What people don't know can't hurt them.

Nobody cares about HQ2 outside of certain tech circles.

My point is people care more about where their cars are made, and they don't even really care about that.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#566

Post by rco8786 » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #308

drumttocs8 wrote: post #249

Amazon would have the greatest impact in Atlanta. You could argue that Atlanta is the economic, cultural, and geographical center of the Southeastern United States. It has the busiest airport in the world and is a major rail hub. There are already dozens of major corporations headquaratered in Atlanta. There is no shortage of talent, with a top-5 engineering school in Georgia Tech. Yet there are things missing which…

Mass transit is NOT needed. Flat land without rivers blocking flow of traffic is all thats needed

It was a very specific need listed by Amazon.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#567

Post by jimbokun » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #559

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

The fact of the matter is that cities in the U.S., with respect to each other, are in a race to the bottom. There is nothing they can do about it: the Constitution mandates an unrestricted internal market with no barriers to the free flow of goods and capital between states. That means that companies will go wherever they can get the best deal, and there is no way for state and local governments to restrict that move…

That's just evidence the southern states suck as business locations. They can only get companies to move there by bribing them.

Contrast with San Francisco and New York City, where they have tons of taxes and no shortage of companies wanting to be there.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#568

Post by appstateguy » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #551

appstateguy wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is ignorant of both the past and future trajectories of the voting populations for both Texas and North Carolina. NC has only become "far right" since 2010. Prior to that it's legislature was controlled by democrats since 1990. Increases in hispanic and latino populations within Texas could turn it blue within the next 20 years. It is very short sighted thinking to think this won't change.

I know plenty well about Southern politics, having worked as a staffer on multiple Southern campaigns. As an alternative, Amazon can choose states that don't currently discriminate against potential employees. Both of those states have positive trajectories (as well as Georgia!) But one bird in the hand is worth... Well, one bird in the bush.

And I live here and it's clear you're extremely ignorant on what the culture is actually like in the Raleigh-Durham region.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#569

Post by monksy » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #433

mindcrime wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago is a major city with lots of culture, food, attractions, etc. Personally I love Chicago, and it's one of my favorite cities to visit in the US. And that's at least in part due to the food scene: Au Cheval, Cantina Laredo, Lao Sze Chuan, Petterino's, Wishbone, Star of Siam, Sushi Pink, etc. But... personally speaking I would not want to live and work in Chicago full-time for one big reason: the weather. It's j…

What an odd list of restaurants.

I was surprised to see Wishbone on there. I like that place.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#570

Post by jimbokun » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

startupdiscuss wrote: post #413

indescions_2018 wrote: post #75

Just visited Pittsburgh. There is indeed a renaissance happing in that town. The restaurant scene alone is phenomenal. And the addition of a FANG level HQ could cement its burgeoning international reputation as a destination. The idea is that CMU spits out about 200+ world class CS grads a year. If even 5% decide to stay in the area to start their own ventures. There would be potential for massive growth. the other d…

But CMU has been producing world class CS grads for decades now, and some % do stay to start their own ventures, and yet Pittsburgh is not (yet) in the same league as even the "Next Silicon Valley" list cities. (Seattle, LA, etc)

First, there will never be another "Silicon Valley". It's one of a kind.

Second, categorizing Seattle or LA as some kind of "up and coming" business area is disingenuous. Seattle has always had Microsoft, now also Amazon, and I'm sure many companies spun off from former employees of those.

LA is the second biggest city in the US, with all kinds of businesses and industries there. It's not trying to be the "Next Silicon Valley", it has it's own firmly established identity.