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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#701

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #624
sarchertech wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China produces 1/3 of the world’s CO2. They already produce more per capita than all other large developed countries except Australia, the US, and Russia. And their rate of growth is higher than all of those countries except Russia. There’s no way to force them to do anything, but this is not that action of a nation that “believes in climate change”.

That's while being the world's factory, having lots of green energy, electric cars and an ACUTE motivation to reduce oil imports. Coal is a problem but at least they're not canceling half-finished green energy products when administrations change.

are you advocating for not changing administrations?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#702

Post by platinumrad »

jayd16 wrote: post #697
w4lker wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thereallo.dev/blog/claude-code-prompt-steganography Why should I trust a US company more than a Chinese one?

You shouldn't trust either but also this is whataboutism.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with "whataboutism" and it is in fact often illuminating.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#703

Post by Chrisszz »

spyckie2 wrote: post #699
kiicia wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a real paradox, that chinese models are what guards democratization and private use of ai while us models are moted castles with "kings" crying that you are stealing their legally stolen goods... what times we are living in...

Competition is a good thing for consumers.

It is also good for the technology itself, just image if there would be just one company that does "just well enough", they will be unmotivated to improve their ai models

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#704

Post by maerF0x0 »

kiicia wrote: post #492
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #480

I'm rather scared of US models - if Anthropic was the only AI provider in the world, it's easy to see that common people would have no access at all. Thankfully there is OpenAI which compete 1:1 with Anthropic (at a slightly lower cost) but most importantly the Chinese models keep Anthropic, but also OpenAI in checks. And I'm saying this as someone working for American companies.

it's a real paradox, that chinese models are what guards democratization and private use of ai while us models are moted castles with "kings" crying that you are stealing their legally stolen goods... what times we are living in...

It blows my mind that these two companies are going to mint billionaires, meanwhile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz was bullied to death by the state for sharing academic papers which were at least in part, if not largely, paid for by tax dollars.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#706

Post by persedes »

mapt wrote: post #596
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #480

I'm rather scared of US models - if Anthropic was the only AI provider in the world, it's easy to see that common people would have no access at all. Thankfully there is OpenAI which compete 1:1 with Anthropic (at a slightly lower cost) but most importantly the Chinese models keep Anthropic, but also OpenAI in checks. And I'm saying this as someone working for American companies.

The Chinese models keep American financial markets at "To the Moon" levels rather than "Igniting Jupiter as a binary star" levels. This amount of capital pressure exerts its own gravitational pull in markets and in geopolitics, and every additional dollar of valuation can propel acquisitions, which propels valuation, et cetera. Undiluted, very quickly Amazon owns countries like it today owns county governments.

this has been my tinfoil hat theory. Investors in US models might be supporting "open" models as a means to create FOMO for other investors to supply more cash to US model providers, which in turn increase their investment value. Package it so they can beat those "adversaries", equate that success with global power struggles etc etc. Seems to be quite effective.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#707

Post by salemh »

traceroute66 wrote: post #524
inglor_cz wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, you neglect the fact that US corporations have some autonomy from the government. I doubt that any of the current American AI corporations get regular dossiers of desirable responses to sensitive political topics from Washington and implement them. That would be a reason for a major lawsuit and a major scandal. In China, the image of the country and the preferred narrative is under much tighter control of…

> you neglect the fact that US corporations have some autonomy from the government In theory. In practice, Trump picks up the phone and say "jump" and the CEO on the other end says "how high ?". And if you say no, well, we saw what happened when Anthropic said no.

[dead]

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#708

Post by nixon_why69 »

procgen wrote: post #636
nixon_why69 wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretend like history is in favor of China. Are you saying that history has a verdict, and it disfavors particular 3000 year old cultures?

> 3,000 year-old cultures Like Western culture?

Sure? Someone calling a model biased for "pretending history is favorable to western culture" would sound pretty provocative.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#709

Post by projektfu »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #644
jml78 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI has forced a dramatic shift in my view on intellectual property. The laws as they exist only protect corporations now. They do not protect individuals no matter how much people want to think they do. AI has proven this. I think to level the playing field all copyright, trademarks, and patents laws should be eliminated. If I want to make a marvel movie, I should be allowed to and profit from it. AI let the cat out…

Or we could build on and enforce the 300+ years of thought and trial that went into copyright law so that individuals are re-empowered. But nah, let's do the most radical, least thought out thing, and absolutely destroy small scale creators. I'm sure Amazon will be benevolent and continue to pay writers in your scenario. What is with 2026 and just conceding civilization to the worst actors, and then adopting the wors…

Writers will be forced to go on tour like musicians in order to get anything from their work, and they may not release the works to the public until after their death. So much for the last of the troubadours.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#710

Post by sarchertech »

ralferoo wrote: post #623
sarchertech wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In absolute numbers China produces 1/3 of the total worlds CO2, and they are still growing the amount of CO2 they are producing. That is not the actions of a country who “believes in climate change”. China’s CO2 per capita is ahead of every large developed country except for the US, Australia, and Russia.

You seem to think China is the evil polluter here. Just sort by per capita, and you'll see it's not even in the top 10% most polluting per capita. There are plenty of large (depending on your definition of large) countries above it. Not just US, Australia and Russia that you are excluding for some reason, but also Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Canada all have significantly developed economically important c…

> There are plenty of large (depending on your definition of large) countries above it. Not just US, Australia and Russia that you are excluding for some reason, but also Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Canada

None of those countries have more than 50 million people. Most of them have fewer than 10 million. None of them are going to move the needle on climate change.

The US is clearly not a country to emulate when it comes to co2 emissions. I don’t think China is any more “evil” than the US when it comes to climate change.

But their actions are clearly no the actions of a country who “believes in climate change”.

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