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Redis is open source again

antirez.com

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Re: Redis is open source again

#701

Post by flaminHotSpeedo »

immibis wrote: post #631
7952 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do AWS really sell things at a loss?

No - that's why their pricing is so detailed and why their services have few limits you can't request them to increase. They can afford to maintain a better branch of Elastic Search or Redis or so on, an drive those companies out of business by the virtue of efficient free market competition. At which point they'll make sure their branch is only useful on their servers, perhaps by adding dependencies on all their int…

> At which point they'll make sure their branch is only useful on their server

Can you think of any examples where they've done that? They certainly could, but I can't think of any times they have actually rug-pulled like that, and the motive to do so seems tenuous too. In order for Amazon to do something like this they would need established market dominance, as well as a belief that some new player will hurt their market share enough to justify alienating the FOSS community.

Re: Redis is open source again

#703

Post by immibis »

palata wrote: post #680
immibis wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're talking about worst for the customer. You're talking about worst for the supplier.

I don't understand what you are saying. What has a "supplier" to do in this? Copyleft is always the best for the customer. Copyleft says "the customer has rights ". Permissive says "do whatever you want, as long as you keep my name somewhere in the attributions".

A product - in this case, software - is supplied from a supplier, or vendor, to their customer. Is this business 101?

The usual worst case for the supplier is that they give the product but don't get paid, and the usual worst case for the customer is that they give the money but don't get the product.

With copyleft specifically, the supplier is much more likely to not get paid, but the customer receives the benefit of being allowed to continue the maintenance of the software themselves if the supplier goes out of business. The supplier hopes this will help them acquire and keep customers, many of whom will pay, and keep them in business.

Re: Redis is open source again

#704

Post by fc417fc802 »

lolinder wrote: post #651
fc417fc802 wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now it's suddenly AWS who are the bad guys for using the FOSS software the way the license always said they could That's not a fair representation of the objection. The thing under contention here is a behemoth freeloading for substantial profit. The reason it's viewed as bad is because that behavior undermines the community at large. Participants need to contribute back proportional to their benefit when realistic…

> The reason it's viewed as bad is because that behavior undermines the community at large. Participants need to contribute back proportional to their benefit when realistically able lest the community decline over time. Why? No one has been able to articulate this for me. Why does Amazon using the software cause the community to decline? Doesn't it make the software more popular with broader reach? When you give sof…

> Why does Amazon using the software cause the community to decline?

It doesn't - at least directly.

> You're producing it with the intention of it being used. Why does that suddenly become a problem when it gets used on a large scale?

You're setting up a cause and effect here that I never put forward. It isn't the use itself that suddenly becomes problematic.

The behavior is the issue. If everyone else pitches in and you don't, you come out ahead. It's the game theory behind cooperative behavior. If only you abstain the community isn't necessarily worse off, but if everyone abstains then it is (ie compared to if they all contributed). The optimal outcome for the group as a whole is for everyone to pitch in.

I do get where you're coming from. Legally speaking it's quite silly for someone investing money not to proactively prevent this from the beginning.

This isn't about the legality though. It's about social responsibilities. Entities with more resources - individuals, corporations, and even governments - are generally held to higher standards in the public eye. The legal system alone is not sufficient to make society a nice place to live.

Re: Redis is open source again

#705

Post by _tom_ »

roetlich wrote: post #667
_tom_ wrote: post #343

Doesn't AGPL give you LESS rights? (fewer?) AGPL is pretty much a non-starter for any commercial development. The RSALv2 let you use Redis, unless you were a service provider. Now, you can't use it for anything (EVERYTHING is accessed over a network now) without sharing your source. So, before everyone but amazon could use it for commercial purposes, now no one can.

Unless you modify Redis, what do you want to share? You don't have to share any of your server code or anything. No reason to be so dramatic. :)

You have to make the choice about sharing at the start. If you use AGPL and later decide to make changes, you'll have to share. So most don't want to risk it.

But more important, AGPL software is banned at many large corporations. It's simply not an option.

Re: Redis is open source again

#706

Post by growse »

palata wrote: post #682
growse wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is training a model on GPL code and then having it write code any different to having a human read GPL code and then write code? Unless there's a specific copyright claim over a specific piece of code that was copied and published, it's hard to see how the GPL has any relevance.

I see that argument over and over, and I don't understand how people can consider it makes sense. "My clipboard learned the code, just like a human would. So it should be fine to copy-paste anything and call it my own". "How is killing a human any different to killing a computer ?" "If humans can vote, why couldn't computers vote as well?" Can we start at "humans are not computers", maybe?

> Can we start at "humans are not computers", maybe?

Sure. So it stands to reason that "computers" are not bound by human laws. So an LLM that finds a piece of copyright data out there on the internet, downloads it, and republishes it has not broken any law? It certainly can't be prosecuted.

My original point was that copyright protections are about (amongst other things) protecting distribution and derivative works rights. I'm not seeing a coherent argument that feeding a copyrighted work (that you obtained legally) into a machine is breaching anyone's copyright.

Re: Redis is open source again

#707

Post by [deleted] »

simonw wrote: post #165

From this post on the Redis blog https://redis.io/blog/agplv3/ it looks like they've made a bunch of new features available under the new AGPL license too: > Integrating Redis Stack technologies, including JSON, Time Series, probabilistic data types, Redis Query Engine and more into core Redis 8 under AGPL Redis Query Engine is new-to-me (I stopped following Redis closely after the license change) - it looks like an…

[deleted]

Re: Redis is open source again

#708

Post by [deleted] »

c0l0 wrote: post #33

I contributed a minor (but imho still neat :p) improvement to Redis under its original license, and personally moved to using redict when the unexpected license change to SSPL was announced - and I was feeling betrayed as a contributor to a properly-FOSS-codebase. (Had they switched to AGPL right away, I'd have been perfectly fine with that change from a moral perspective, ftr.) I have a great deal of respect for ant…

[deleted]

Re: Redis is open source again

#709

Post by StreamingPanda »

WD-42 wrote: post #170
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this is actually another case of the benefits ValKey got for being able to clone Redis, receiving money from the hyper-scalers that just want to maximize their revenues... I don't think you want to sling that mud, unless Redis switched to being a nonprofit when I wasn't looking.

They aren't really comparable and you know that.

lmao they absolutely are

Re: Redis is open source again

#710

Post by kragen »

simonw wrote: post #165

From this post on the Redis blog https://redis.io/blog/agplv3/ it looks like they've made a bunch of new features available under the new AGPL license too: > Integrating Redis Stack technologies, including JSON, Time Series, probabilistic data types, Redis Query Engine and more into core Redis 8 under AGPL Redis Query Engine is new-to-me (I stopped following Redis closely after the license change) - it looks like an…

Dismayingly, the CEO misspelled antirez's last name in this press release, https://redis.io/blog/agplv3/. That's so incredibly disrespectful:

> Following our license change, in November of 2024 Salvatore Sanfillipo (antirez) decided to rejoin Redis as a developer evangelist. Collaborating with Salvatore on new capabilities, company strategy and community engagement has been a true privilege that has made a major impact that will pay dividends into the future.

If it's a true privilege, you should earn it by not misspelling his name. Actions speak louder than words.

Pink Floyd has a song about this:

Well, I've always had a deep respect and I mean that most sincere

The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think

Oh, by the way, which one's Pink?

And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?

We call it riding the gravy train

We're just knocked out, we heard about the sell-out

You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people

We're so happy we can hardly count

Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?

It's a hell of a start, it could be made into a monster

If we all pull together as a team.

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