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Redis is open source again

antirez.com

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Re: Redis is open source again

#131

Post by Alupis »

jayofdoom wrote: post #108
cess11 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do see how that's even worse, right?

I don't see how it's worse? https://github.com/microsoft/garnet/blob/main/LICENSE It's MIT licensed?

Microsoft has a habit of "fake" open source. Particularly on Github.

By "fake", I mean Microsoft largely treats their Open Source codebases like they are closed-source, in-house proprietary codebases that they happen to let members of the public look at.

They'll accept a PR once in a while, but mostly it appears Issues and PR's are used as a free alternative to UserVoice.

Every decision is made behind closed doors (probably a MS Teams call actually), and you'll notice how top-heavy their staff is on these projects (half a dozen employees with "Manager" in their title on any given repo).

Beggars can't be choosers, and I'm glad they are dipping their toes into the FOSS water... but I don't really get FOSS vibes from their projects on Github.

Re: Redis is open source again

#132

Post by twoodfin »

benwilber0 wrote: post #110
brookst wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least you have to validate everything that touches redis, which means finding everything that touches redis. Internal tools and docs need to be updated. And who knows if someone adopted post-fork features? If this is a production system that supports the core business, hundreds of hours seems pretty reasonable. For a small operation that can afford to YOLO it, sure, it should be pretty easy.

But why are they spending any time switching away from Redis at all unless they are a hosting provider offering Redis-as-a-service? I wasn't aware the license had any negative affect on private internal use.

The negative effect is that you have to bring the lawyers back in, and they tend to take an extremely conservative position on what might be litigated as offering “Redis-as-a-service”.

Re: Redis is open source again

#133

Post by neonsunset »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #53
c0l0 wrote: post #33

I contributed a minor (but imho still neat :p) improvement to Redis under its original license, and personally moved to using redict when the unexpected license change to SSPL was announced - and I was feeling betrayed as a contributor to a properly-FOSS-codebase. (Had they switched to AGPL right away, I'd have been perfectly fine with that change from a moral perspective, ftr.) I have a great deal of respect for ant…

Microsoft made one called Garnet, I wouldn't say its a fork though, its basically compatible with Redis and implemented mostly in C#. It supports the RESP wire protocol from Redis for ease of compatibility. https://github.com/microsoft/garnet

Yup, it’s a complete reimplementation in pure C#. It’s built on top of FASTER KV / Tsavorite project from MSR.

Re: Redis is open source again

#134

Post by _msw_ »

mattl wrote: post #29

Redis should step up and fund an independent foundation now and encourage Valkey to contribute where relevant. Some code under a 3 clause BSD and some under AGPLv3 could be interesting.

Why? They can already just copy the code they want from Valkey, since Valkey is 3 clause BSD...

But maybe Valkey should switch to GPLv3 instead to correct this imbalance.

https://github.com/redis/redis/pull/13638

Re: Redis is open source again

#135

Post by kstrauser »

immibis wrote: post #91

Flagged for misleading headline. SSPL is open source. It's just not the open source you want. It meets all the criteria and the only difference from AGPL is how much source code you have to release and when - which is also the difference between GPL and AGPL. It has problems, but being closed source isn't one of them. The OSI will never certify it, of course, because that would go against the business interests of th…

This is not a widely accepted claim. I do not see SSPL as open source, and neither do OSI[0] or FSF[1] or Debian[2].

[0]https://opensource.org/blog/the-sspl-is-not-an-open-source-l...

[1]https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html

[2]https://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/

Re: Redis is open source again

#136

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

antirez wrote: post #74
ibnurasikh wrote: post #61

Gladly, Valkey has other benefits besides its more permissive license compared to Redis. One of them is multi-threading support, which makes it pretty easy for someone like me—who has a bit of a skill issue with DevOps—to actually utilize all CPU cores for my caching layer.

The I/O threading was initially implemented by myself, when I was still working on the core before rejoining, and is also available in Redis. So this is actually another case of the benefits ValKey got for being able to clone Redis, receiving money from the hyper-scalers that just want to maximize their revenues... They made certain improvements later, but Redis 8 (see the release notes in my blog post if you are cur…

> So this is actually another case of the benefits ValKey got for being able to clone Redis, receiving money from the hyper-scalers that just want to maximize their revenues...

I don't think you want to sling that mud, unless Redis switched to being a nonprofit when I wasn't looking.

Re: Redis is open source again

#137

Post by neonsunset »

Alupis wrote: post #131
jayofdoom wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's worse? https://github.com/microsoft/garnet/blob/main/LICENSE It's MIT licensed?

Microsoft has a habit of "fake" open source. Particularly on Github. By "fake", I mean Microsoft largely treats their Open Source codebases like they are closed-source, in-house proprietary codebases that they happen to let members of the public look at. They'll accept a PR once in a while, but mostly it appears Issues and PR's are used as a free alternative to UserVoice. Every decision is made behind closed doors (p…

Garnet has a discord server and has been actively accepting community PRs, so I don’t know what kind of nonsense you are on about.

What is it with .NET that compels you to lie?

Also FOSS and open contribution are different things, as sibling comment notes.

Re: Redis is open source again

#138

Post by poincaredisk »

tinix wrote: post #37
md3911027514 wrote: post #14

Our company made the switch over to Valkey, and we've invested hundreds of engineering hours into it already. I don't see us switching back at this point especially when it's clear Redis could easily pull the bait-and-switch again.

how does it take hundreds of hours to swap out a back end when you're using a trivial protocol like redis? did you switch out the client or something? maybe the problem is not using pluggable adapters? is your business logic coupled to the particular database client API? oof. I know the cluster clients are different (been there, done that) but hundreds of hours, seriously? or was that just hyperbole?

My company is relatively small. With probably 6 separate redis instances deployed in various places (k8s, bare metal, staging and prod environments) and dozens of (micro)services using them it's probably at least 40 hours (one person-week) to migrate everything at this point. Also there are things like documentation, legacy apps that keep working but nobody wants to spend time updating them, naming problems everywhere (renaming "redis" everywhere with zero downtime would be a huge pain), outdated documentation, possibly updates in CI, CD, and e2e tests, and probably more problems that ight become apparent in scale.

And we're honestly not large. For a mid size company, hundreds hours sound reasonable. For a big company the amount of work must be truly staggering.

Re: Redis is open source again

#139

Post by KolmogorovComp »

Alupis wrote: post #131
jayofdoom wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's worse? https://github.com/microsoft/garnet/blob/main/LICENSE It's MIT licensed?

Microsoft has a habit of "fake" open source. Particularly on Github. By "fake", I mean Microsoft largely treats their Open Source codebases like they are closed-source, in-house proprietary codebases that they happen to let members of the public look at. They'll accept a PR once in a while, but mostly it appears Issues and PR's are used as a free alternative to UserVoice. Every decision is made behind closed doors (p…

You’re confusing open source and open to contribution. Is SQLite not open-source?

Re: Redis is open source again

#140

Post by immibis »

liviux wrote: post #43

Wishing all real-open-source projects best of luck, including valkey, OpenTofu and so on. These are my clear first choice!

Copyleft is Free Software, free as in freedom. Pushover licenses (such as MIT) are working for free for Amazon, Google and Oracle. Which is fine if your boss is paying you money to work for free for Amazon, Google and Oracle - it's their money. If it's your own spare time, you might not like it as much.
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