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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#701

Post by wolverine876 »

FredPret wrote: post #611
wolverine876 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How wide a range of subjects one might discover on ones own is arguably broader The original claim was about concepts beyond an orthodoxy, but whether concepts or subjects, it's very unlikely you will discover on your own more than a university full of domain experts who spend lifetimes discovering and studying these things. It's not remotely plausible. > I am largely self taught in CS (my degree was in another sub…

Learning from experts is unambiguously good. College isn't only learning from experts though.

So?

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#702

Post by wolverine876 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #683
wolverine876 wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What claim in the original post does that support? None, it has nothing to do with it.

The comment you responded to said > I agree with you that inconvenient truths now get muzzled because they don’t fit an acceptable meta-narrative. This is very problematic for society and when taken to the maximum, can lead to thinks like Cambodia’s attempt at restarting society by killing all those who didn’t fit the model they were looking for. And then you took issue with the description of the Cambodian genocide.…

No, I took issue with "can lead to".

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#703

Post by wolverine876 »

_gabe_ wrote: post #574
wolverine876 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had a class that really critically analyzed native American cultures. Today the class would be considered racist, it would have to a priori be an admiration of those cultures If we are going to be collegiate, let's critically examine our own posts. What is that based on? It doesn't match what I know.

If you want to be collegiate this literally happened a year ago[0]: > When Professor Stuart Reges challenged the University of Washington’s position on land acknowledgements, administrators punished him, undermining his academic freedom But don't worry, you don't have to go so far as critically teaching about all the aspects of different cultures to risk being accused as a racist on college campuses. I also remember…

Your evidence:

* The Fire appears to be an advocacy organization for one side o that debate, not a credible source of news.

* What is wrong with removing the rock? What do you know about it? I read a couple articles, including the CNN article, and nobody seems to dispute its racist symbolism. The campus administration supported its removal and the students who raised the issue. What do you know better? And who was censored or otherwise harmed by its removal?

As is common IME for these sorts of claims, smoke machines but rarely a fire.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#704

Post by miley_cyrus »

hiddencost wrote: post #626
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is a shared fiction of unity and greatness that enables great civilizations to overcome otherwise inevitable tribal warfare. So Native Americans and Pilgrims sat down together for a Thanksgiving feast with Turkey and mashed potatoes. Should we teach this to children despite there being more to the story? Well it depends, do we want descendants of Pilgrims and Native Americans to sit down for a Thanksgiving fe…

[flagged]

Nothing in that person's comment supports "banning transgender people," and I resent that you are trying to twist that person's words.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#705

Post by phist_mcgee »

mym1990 wrote: post #502
phist_mcgee wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both can still be valid. Mental health days are good, and burn out is a real phenomenon. It's a shame that blue collar workers don't have access to these facilities, and yes office workers are by and large 'softer' than blue collar workers. But we should fight corporations and organisations to provide those facilities for everyone , and not pick sides in a working class debate (not that you did that). All paid worker…

Ah yes, going into work every day sneering at your employer as they are your true mortal enemy, sounds like a perfect way to live. I am assuming that since you think this, you don't have a job?

You got me!

I live in a yurt in mongolia.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#706

Post by FredPret »

wolverine876 wrote: post #701
FredPret wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning from experts is unambiguously good. College isn't only learning from experts though.

So?

I don't know, trying adding 2 and 2 and see if my argument leads anywhere?

Instruction from experts is a good thing, and that part of college is therefore a good thing. But there are many aspects of college that is directly or indirectly not exactly the same thing as sitting there in front of an instructor.

Things such as paying tuition, socializing, walking around campus, getting classes on being more woke. These aspects add and detract from the central idea of college, which is instruction by experts.

Therefore students have to weigh the total experience and see if it is worth it. The article is saying many of them reckon it is not worth it anymore.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#707

Post by alphager »

kello wrote: post #153

Over here in Germany they have well-established apprenticeship programs for many more jobs than in the US. There are apprenticeships for software developers, for bankers, for "Bürokauffrau/Bürokaufmanm" (office clerks/administrators), for media work, for all sorts of medical jobs, and so on. You name it, and there is probably an "Ausbildung" (apprenticeship) for it here. The apprenticeship programs are still somewhat…

And there's even the combination of apprenticeship and university with the "Duale Hochschule". You spend alternating 3 months working for a company and 3 months studying at university. After 3 years, you earned a bachelor's degree and have 18 months of work experience.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#708

Post by latency-guy2 »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #673
latency-guy2 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other place you are missing in your life is self inflicted. No one stops you from going to church, you are. Capitalism created so many opportunities for you to choose that you are now afraid of making a choice. At what point will you stop saying > It could easily exist in public parks, but we are expected to avoid strangers. And instead admit that YOU don't want to meet strangers, and that YOU expect others to av…

> No one stops you from going to church, you are. And, as an atheist, why in the hell would I? If I attend a church, I will be expected to participate . At the very least, whatever narrative that church focuses on will be the topic of a significant portion of conversation. That is entirely contradictory to the "third place" I am talking about. Your insinuation that I am the problem for choosing not to embrace a churc…

I included at least 10 different items that you could have chosen as hobbies for a reason.

Look, you're in the position you are because you don't like people. Just stop pretending like you actually want something to do socially. You don't. That's why you're here whinging about a conspiracy of a lost "third place". You left every group in the first place on your own. You are antisocial, and you don't want to live life any other way.

> Like you said, there are a million things: every one of them has an intentional purpose: a predetermined subject. Every one of them has the potential for meeting people, but "meeting people" is not the point!

It literally is the single point.

> Exactly. Here we stand in a world where most people (including you) are only willing to listen to the people from their chosen social groups. We can't even talk to each other without first sorting ourselves into categories of interest!

Narrative building and a weird diatribe, groups have always self sorted.

> This is the failure of church: unification by demand. One narrative to rule them all; but in reality, competing with many other narratives. Why must we join a team in the first place? It's it really that hard to just talk to each other?

This isn't a discussion, once again. This is you inventing a problem.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#709

Post by UncleEntity »

Balgair wrote: post #494
zinckiwi wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American translation: graduating with anything other than a 4.0 or a 1.0 is wasted.

Oh got it now, thanks! Here in the US we have a saying of " C equals Degree", so kinda the exact opposite of the UK saying. Strange!

Talk about grade inflation…

Back in my day it was “Ds get degrees”.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#710

Post by listless »

ip26 wrote: post #587
listless wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of sounding like a terrible person, I'd like to be honest for a second about why I went to college, which is to avoid this exactly reality that you just laid out. I enlisted in the military after finding college to be too boring for my taste. 3 months later I found myself doing the hardest manual labor of my life on a riverboat for the Coast Guard. The pay was not great and nobody cared if you didn't feel…

You’re certainly right that people casually complain of burnout long before it has reached medical significance, but it isn’t just some imaginary condition. Burnout seems like the brain equivalent of overexertion injuries. In full form it seems rather similar to battle fatigue.

Much of how humans handle their own suffering is determined by their world view. Knowledge workers tend to have a view that we should never be uncomfortable in our jobs. Ever. For a lot of blue collar workers, being uncomfortable is just part of the job. Watch one episode of "Deadliest Catch" to see this in action. A lot of blue collar work is "comfortable being uncomfortable".
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