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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#701

Post by justwalt »

Great post. As a man in my twenties, I think that, even though we’re hearing about this from the men at the bottom end of the sexual-success spectrum, the problem is still being felt by average men as well. Many of my friends have complained about how dating these days feels like women are always holding out for the next best thing, and I have to agree with them.

A female friend of mine echoed a bit of the sentiment that a few of my friends had theorized was at least partly to blame, and that’s that she felt like had too much choice and was getting too much attention. She felt like her ego was being inflated in a way that was unhealthy, and so she turned away from online dating and eventually met her fiancé through mutual friends.

I wish I had some actionable advice to give along with this anecdote, but I’m still stuck in the dating game myself.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#702

Post by int_19h »

jimbob45 wrote: post #34

[flagged]

The original NSDAP was quite socialist, and even as Hitler developed it into his own party, it retained a strong socialist faction, which we now refer to as the Strasserites. It was purged eventually, but the history is there.

FWIW, "red-brown" political alliances are still a prominent thing in some countries, usually based on shared social conservative ideals. Furthermore, there are political movements such as National Bolshevism that explicitly draw this connection.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#704

Post by Sevastopol »

standardUser wrote: post #459
navait wrote: post #137

Is there any real policy options we can pursue? We can't assign mandatory girlfriends, and even if we could, they may not find it was what they wanted. I can help the poor and destitute much more effectively than I can wealthy people with vague psychological issues, and they also have more immediate needs. We all have limited time on our hands, and in terms of effectiveness, working with incels seems like something t…

There are policy options. I suggested in a comment: Decriminalize sex work, provide universal mental health coverage and implement a more expansive version of sex education in schools.

Is sex that is paid for the same as one in a relationship where both people actually desire each other?

The statistics in the article point to the "problem" being women's increasing standards that young men can't meet. Mental health coverage, polyamory, sexwork, etc. don't seem like relevant solutions.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#705

Post by eloff »

eloff wrote: post #343
michaelpb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this line of thought is that some of the "crazies at the edge" in the past are the sensible, moderate ideas that you no doubt hold right now. For example, viewing slavery as an evil institution was considered the "crazies at the edge" opinion in the early-mid 1800s in the US, as opposed to the dominant opinion among "sensible" abolitionists that slavery was personal sin that requires a redemption pro…

Nothing about what I said means that values are static over time or that the balance can't shift. It's true that today's crazies at the edge might be tomorrows center - although I find that thought troubling! But make no mistake, the extremes at both ends harbor dangerous crazies. In politics, while the evils of the right are obvious and dangerous, the evils of the left are much more seductive but have been just as d…

Just an aside, I've noticed that anything I post criticizing the right gets me upvotes on HN. Anything criticizing the left is much more controversial. I wonder how HN leans as a whole?

I view myself as left of center, but not left enough by the standards of this community.

I just find that interesting.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#706

Post by diveanon »

jmull wrote: post #112
diveanon wrote: post #23

Can we please leave this kind of stuff on reddit? I know HN has pretty broad rules, but between stuff like this and the near constant posts about the SV housing market it really cheapens the forum.

Use the “hide” link. It’s perfect for the posts on topics you don’t want to see any more of.

Does it hide later posts on similar topics?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#707

Post by ska »

cabraca wrote: post #165
Loughla wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're being down-voted, you're right. I haven't met anyone, even in the insanely left and progressive university circles that I run in, who advocate for equality in outcome. It's equality in opportunity that's important. It's about letting 'your freedom as an individual to choose your own destiny' actually be 'free' from the start and not constrained by social mores, ingrained biases or discriminati…

Isn't the idea of underrepresentation of certain minority groups or genders basically that? we hear that there are only xy % of women in tech or PoC in tech and that the goal is to get for example 50/50% women/men. Isn't this basically a discussion about equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. 50%/50% is basically equality of outcome. We can see for example in scandinavia that you get unequal outcomes if you…

> Isn't the idea of underrepresentation of certain minority groups or genders basically that?

Not really, but it's a bit nuanced.

I'm not taking a position here on what is correct, but advocates for this sort thing will state that inequality in current distribution of outcomes is due inequality of opportunity in the past. If you accept that as true, you have a problem from a policy level as to what to do about it, if anything.

One approach would be to attach the opportunity side only, and assume that in time a more equitable distribution will arrive over time. The problem is for something like this "in time" is probably measured in generations.

Another is to try an tip the scales a bit to correct to impact of opportunity on those people effected, or on your company (or other institution) or both. A problem with this approach is you by definition don't really know what the correct distribution should be, so you are likely to be a bit hamfisted about it.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#708

Post by nradov »

spoonjim wrote: post #537
notyourday wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating that non 18-21 women and especially men know what are the 18-21 women want in a partner.

I’m not talking about 18-21 year old women now, I’m talking about those who got married when extramarital sex was taboo. The best place I’ve seen to hear about how they chose their spouse is a radio site called StoryCorps.

People (especially young people) make those decisions based on impulse and emotion, then rationalize after the fact. You can't believe the explanations they give. Most people just say what they think they're supposed to say, or what they think would please the interviewer.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#709

Post by dandare »

standardUser wrote: post #614
theropost wrote: post #380

It must be confusing to be a boy these days with all the conflicting messaging on how they should or should not be. The expectations of men are conflicting, confusing, uneven, and ever-changing. Equality is thrown around, with many exceptions across the board. Men simply bite their tongues in society, and are expected to do so without much complaint. Men are told to share their feelings, but then ignored or shamed wh…

Your son will likely never be sexually harassed or assaulted, which is something we can't say about most women.

Let's ignore that your numbers are wrong, what is your point? That boys/men should be somehow punished by default? Or that women have it harder?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#710

Post by letonmorri »

rrradical wrote: post #596
everdrive wrote: post #190

>Her response was that they had so much "male privilege" and that they have no excuse for underperforming. That, thus, they should still be _ahead_ of women, presumably, despite the goal being that they... shouldn't be. This will be downvoted and poorly received, but the fact is that women despise weak men. If a man is in a poor state, most women will be visibly disgusted by him. A man generally should not expect sym…

I don't mean to be glib, but, are you saying women who are in a poor state are desirable? I don't think so... Is it bad that women don't find some men attractive, when those same men probably wouldn't find some women attractive? I apologize if that misconstrues your opinion, but I've heard it elsewhere before: that somehow women 'should' be more forgiving of unattractiveness than men are, and that's really weird to m…

Yes its more common than you think, in fact in the hiphop community has a slur that was created for men like that called "captain save a ho".
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