I was quite out of tune with this whole issue until I watched the Alek Minassian[1] interview/confession[2]. I still don't really know what to make of it. I will warn you: it's not easy listening, however, it is eye opening and adds further context to this substack post.
On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
21–30 of 1001 posts
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#22> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
>This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy in life is their partner then something is wrong. Mental health is no joke and not being able to enjoy life is usually a symptom of an underlying cause. Depression is probably the most common but anxiety disorders can be similarly hard.
This is nonsense. The instinct to reproduce is inescapable for the vast majority of people. Without it humans would not exist. There is only so much social conditioning that can be done to override the innate drive for partnership and sex. Ignoring this basic drive, which is implicit in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, disenfranchises young men who are disproportionately driven by evolutionarily derived instinct to seek romantic female companionship.
>A partner is not a replacement for the natural circle of close friends humans are supposed to have
No, more like friends are not a replacement for intimacy.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#23Can we please leave this kind of stuff on reddit?
I know HN has pretty broad rules, but between stuff like this and the near constant posts about the SV housing market it really cheapens the forum.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#24isn't sex/partner/pro-creation at the very root of all forms of life? If you can't have sex then nature is saying you shouldn't have sex.
No, this is a social problem and has nothing to do with nature.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#25> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
> the best explanation that I've heard for the feeling men have of basic unhappiness without romance and sex is toxic masculinity; the general societal rejection of deep emotional relationships between straight men. Lonely? Make strong friendships! Spend your time with other men who like you and enjoy your company and validate you
I'm not sure I buy this. I'm a man who has lots of close friendships (many of which are with women, but some of which are with men), and I still feel like it's not enough and that I want a romantic/sexual partner. A partner is not a replacement for a close circle of friends, but neither is close circle of friends a replacement for a partner.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#26For any suffering a communication issue in your relationship, I can't recommend enough the book: "Conscious Loving" [1]
Asides from being an enjoyable read, it provides an excellent framework and guide for how to have conversations about difficult topics successfully. It pairs well with the book "Nonviolent Communication"
These things take time and effort, but they really truly work.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Loving-Co-Commitment-Gay-He...
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#27Is this too simplistic?
Take care of yourself - health (mental and physical etc).
Sex work should be legal if there is a "market failure" as the article argues.
If someone doesn't want sex in a relationship and other person does - any way to negotiate something - ie, get on tinder for one person or whatever if the issue isn't so critical to break up over?
Is porn a problem? ie, perception everyone getting lots of crazy deep throat action or whatever? Real life is not exactly like that I don't think?
One tip - get off computer / phone / ipad and out from in front of TV. Seriously your life gets better so many ways. Board in bed? Sex gets a lot more interesting.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#28> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
> This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy in life is their partner then something is wrong
When you get older, a partner (or children) are important to keep you going. Your body will fail you. Your mind will fail you. Your life will end and (statistically) it will be a long downward slope. Binding yourself to the right person keeps that slope more even, for longer.
People who think being alone is great are right, until some point after the slide begins that has slowly eaten away at your own ability.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#29> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
I'm not sure I follow; sex and sexual activity are a part of the first level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Note, it's not intimacy but sex itself. Intimacy lies on the 3rd level.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#30[deleted]