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The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

phoronix.com

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Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#701

Post by eesmith »

sergeykish wrote: post #693
eesmith wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather was a preacher and a millennialist, which means he thought the world would end soon. He based this out of his intimate knowledge of the Bible, spanning over 60 years of study. He was also a missionary who starting churches and had a radio show. Surely that fulfills both contribution and prediction. I therefore disagree with your characterization. Now, he appears to have been wrong, but just like preach…

I am sorry for your grandfather. He knew Bible and he was right by his interpretation of Bible. In programming world word is reality, there is only one meaning. Those who know word forge reality. This requires knowledge. Critics who do not posses knowledge appeal to emotions, spread FUD. They may be right by coincidence like standing clocks.

What one meaning does "preach" have in the programming world?

Because I think you used it wrong.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#702

Post by sergeykish »

eesmith wrote: post #701
sergeykish wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry for your grandfather. He knew Bible and he was right by his interpretation of Bible. In programming world word is reality, there is only one meaning. Those who know word forge reality. This requires knowledge. Critics who do not posses knowledge appeal to emotions, spread FUD. They may be right by coincidence like standing clocks.

What one meaning does "preach" have in the programming world? Because I think you used it wrong.

https://www.google.com/search?q=preach

I've described context. You've confirmed it. Statement supported not by fact but by inner voice. My morale stems from Christianity, I believe Enlightenment got it right — discovery of nature is discovery of God. I've been to church, I've seen priest who shared joy. I've seen other priests, I would rather not see them.

X.Org developer described what's wrong with the project [1]. Not one of the Wayland critiques addressed his points. They have no facts, they just want it to fail. Those who work hard and share for free get anger in return. Sway / wlroots maintainer (ddevault) got off the edge from this misinformation and I do not agree with him but I am not maintainer either. Where is love and God in this story?

> That’s not even considering any personal goals, which I have vanishingly little time for. I get zero exercise, and though my diet is mostly reasonable the majority of it is delivery unless I get the odd 2 hours to visit the grocery store. That is, unless I want to spend those 2 hours with my friends, which means it’s back to delivery. My dating life is almost nonexistent. I want to spend more time studying Japanese, but it’s either that or keeping up with my leisure reading. Lofty goals of also studying Chinese or Arabic are but dust in the wind. I’m addicted to caffeine, again.

> Less healthy ways have included walking to the corner store to buy unhealthy comfort foods, consuming alcohol or weed too much or too often, getting in stupid internet arguments, being mean to my friends and colleagues, and googling myself to read negative comments. [3]

That's story behind Linux infrastructure. Because of such work I have Linux and I am grateful for it, but no mob wants to finish them.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24896917

[3] https://drewdevault.com/2020/01/21/Stress-and-happiness.html

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#703

Post by 2ion »

1_player wrote: post #286
2ion wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big mistake with W was leaving so much of function specification to the implementor. W was a spec, but totally incomplete for what was needed to build a usable power user desktop. The Linux DE landscape was already fractured to the degree of inefficiency for such a small user base, and with W this fracture actually deepened due to the Great Unsharing of implementation details. Nothing global. Everything local, fr…

With W I assume you mean Wayland? You comment is confusing because the W Window System [1] is in fact the predecessor of X11 and that's what I thought you were referring to. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_Window_System

Of course, thanks for pointing that out. Wayland should have been the Y system ;)

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#704

Post by eesmith »

sergeykish wrote: post #702
eesmith wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What one meaning does "preach" have in the programming world? Because I think you used it wrong.

https://www.google.com/search?q=preach I've described context. You've confirmed it. Statement supported not by fact but by inner voice. My morale stems from Christianity, I believe Enlightenment got it right — discovery of nature is discovery of God. I've been to church, I've seen priest who shared joy. I've seen other priests, I would rather not see them. X.Org developer described what's wrong with the project [1].…

My observation is that "preach" is orthogonal to contribution.

Which is why I think it's the wrong term, and why utxaa was confused.

Your link to Google for a dictionary definition says:

1) deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.

This wasn't a sermon or religious address, and HN isn't church.

2) publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).

Okay, so posting a comment on HN is public, which means we're all preaching? This doesn't seem what you mean.

3) earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).

This is the closest. However, "this is all going to end in X12" seem far from earnest advocacy.

Your own comments seem far more earnest - are you not also preaching?

It's far easier for me to believe you simply used the wrong term.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#705

Post by utxaa »

sergeykish wrote: post #680
utxaa wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean i would predict but not contribute? yes.

no, like in "preach the end of the world", contribution and prediction requires intimate knowledge, preaching does not

why do you assume i don't know what i'm talking about?

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#706

Post by sergeykish »

eesmith wrote: post #704
sergeykish wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=preach I've described context. You've confirmed it. Statement supported not by fact but by inner voice. My morale stems from Christianity, I believe Enlightenment got it right — discovery of nature is discovery of God. I've been to church, I've seen priest who shared joy. I've seen other priests, I would rather not see them. X.Org developer described what's wrong with the project [1].…

My observation is that "preach" is orthogonal to contribution. Which is why I think it's the wrong term, and why utxaa was confused. Your link to Google for a dictionary definition says: 1) deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church. This wasn't a sermon or religious address, and HN isn't church. 2) publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief). Okay, so po…

"preach the end of the world" does not contribute to the facts based world. Even if you don't agree with that I'm fine to end this discussion.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#707

Post by sergeykish »

utxaa wrote: post #705
sergeykish wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, like in "preach the end of the world", contribution and prediction requires intimate knowledge, preaching does not

why do you assume i don't know what i'm talking about?

Please address [1] or you don't know what you are talking about. Similar point in next post [2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24922936

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#708

Post by utxaa »

sergeykish wrote: post #707
utxaa wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you assume i don't know what i'm talking about?

Please address [1] or you don't know what you are talking about. Similar point in next post [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24922936

i either address [1] or i don't know what i'm talking about?

sure pal, you got it.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#709

Post by anthk »

pengaru wrote: post #626
anthk wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think directdb stuff is KMS/DRM compatible. Mplayer on the fbdev2 driver works perfectly. So is DirectFB Links. >Unfortunately we have a significant collection of old demos and games targeting SVGAlib, but at this point it's probably best to just run them in a virtualized linux environment lacking any graphics drivers so SVGAlib can run the show on a faked VGA. Or a wrapper trapping SVGAlib calls to SDL/SDL2.

> Or a wrapper trapping SVGAlib calls to SDL/SDL2. That works for programs limiting their operations to SVGAlib calls. As I mentioned, but you omitted in the citation: > SVGAlib apps frequently performed direct hardware access requiring root ... How do you trap those directly accessing VGA IO ports via inb/outb instructions? I clearly recall writing modex routines in assembly for SVGAlib demos, and I'm pretty sure I…

If X.org has an X86 BIOS emulator for weird systems, an SDL2 SVGALIB trap could do those pretty fast.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#710

Post by darthrupert »

bashtoni wrote: post #449
darthrupert wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland was the last straw for me. It made me switch to Macs after 20 years of almost exclusive Linux on the desktop and a few dev stints. It was cool when my time was less expensive. I check the state of the linux world about once a year still. And obviously keep using it on the servers. Best of luck to everyone using it for desktop. I totally get why you do it, but it's just not for me right now.

I was provided with a Macbook Pro 15" by my work and I struggle to understand comments like this. Upgrades often break things, I'm forced to use brew to install software which leaves files strewn around the file system and regularly seems to have cross package conflicts. And don't get me started on the hardware - the laptop is excessively heavy and the keyboard is awful (and I don't just mean the touch bar gimmick).…

That's fine, there's no reason why everyone needs to understand why I do what I do :) I agree with you on FOSS software brittleness though, Linux is usually better on that front. Brew is a hack that works well enough in practice, however.
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