Live data from Hacker News

Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

theverge.com

701–710 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#701
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let‘s take the example of an autonomous car. Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it? Looking a bit further down the line toward a society with more prevalent and powerful AI there will need to be some kind of certification that the software you are running is safe. It will be almost impossible to enforce this without the help of device manufacturers who will be mandated to only run saf…

The thing is, an open ecosystem that allows users to run any software they want on their devices already exists, including on Apple devices, in the form of the Web. And despite all of its flaws it's the most successful software deployment platform the world has ever seen, to the point where even Apple can't afford to not include it on their platforms when we all know they'd rather not, because it's simply too valuabl…

Thanks for your comment. I want to clarify some things.

> There's no central gatekeeper for the web, and sure, it has its dark corners, but it has not devolved into absolute chaos as you so adamantly suggest all such ecosystems would, and continues to deliver such an incredible amount value to consumers and businesses alike.

I never stated that all open systems would turn into chaos. What I suggested is that systems with unchecked advanced AI capabilities probably will. Technology is changing and old paradigms are not guaranteed to work in the future.

You seem to be looking only at the present and there I find your sentiment somewhat reasonable. However, looking at the future, safety will become much more important. If the software you are deploying has the potential to (unintentionally) kill people, shut down cities, or otherwise wrack havoc because you haven’t completely mastered the art of training machine intelligence in a safe way... you simply don’t want this to be openly sold, same as you don’t want to buy medicine or medical technology from a 5 year old kid you just met on the subway. You also don’t have the right to hurt people to fulfill your desire to make things.

I know what I am referring to requires some looking down the road but we will get there in due time. More regulation is (hopefully) inevitable.

What I still think is open for discussion are the exact terms of such vetting/control. It might very well be that terms will get less onerous. That there will be requirements for gate keepers to implement. However, freedom from control is not going to be the long term solution and this is not a bad thing!

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#703
Hey HN mods! "spanhandler" is making a lot of cogent arguments in favor of Apple in this thread, like the voice of somebody with 20+ years in the industry. He also has a karma of 700+ after only opening the account 16 days ago. His entire comment history is to bash people arguing for open standards - see this thread, firefox threads, etc.

I cannot think of any motivation for any techie to create an account to spread propaganda (masquerading as informed opinion) unless that individual is getting something in return from Apple et al.

HN, "spanhandler" user is a symphtom of why HN has become a servant of power.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#704
Is the issue the cut or the percentage?

I'd imagine that a sliding scale would be far more palatable for big companies, say every order of magnitude increase above say 1000 in installs, the cut drops by 5%, so if you have 1 million installs, any extra would be 15%.

I suppose there is the possibility of fake accounts but at this scale, likely hundreds of millions, is it going to be a big difference?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> The existence of a third-party marketplace doesn't change anything about that situation

People will install insecure app stores to get a hot app. Facebook would likely launch a store with none of Apple’s spyware restrictions. Cisco and IBM and Microsoft would too, and with that come e.g. employer mandates for certain apps and thus certain stores.

Apple regulates its App Store. Remove its distribution control and that regulatory power diminish. That diminish meant is fine when Apple extends its App Store dominance to win at music streaming and payments. But it’s a poor argument against the App Store per se.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#706

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition.

"Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#708

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

I will want a clearly marked difference in brands. One brand can be where the restrictions are associated under a common service. Another brand can be all-you-want-install set of stores. I have had cases maintaining systems where the common denominator was to reinstall a system.

In the hypothetical scenario where iOS permits active side loading of applications, then there should be, in my opinion, two separate brands. Brand 1: iOS (classic), Brand 2: Generic Brand. Let’s call it Epic mobile brand.

While in principle I want to install any software on any hardware. In practice if an issue comes up on non-iOS brand, let’s call it Epic Mobile OS, the fast solution is to reinstall the OS. I want these to be clearly demarcated , so that I avoid the onslaught of crappy apps in the second category requiring re-installation.

And I am old to consistently reinstall OSes.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#710
post #706

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

The android ecosystem and OEM's lack of support for older phones (for one) is something that is 'forcing' me to enter their walled garden. I can't, also as a customer, ignore that Apple has done a lot of things very well, but that doesn't at all stop me from also complaining about their bad practices.
Post reply on HN