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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#701

Post by masondixon »

mch82 wrote: post #648
masondixon wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would never try to ban any use of language. Its more like advice. We say: "Stop calling everything racist and sexist that is not racist or sexist because you are missing the real underlying issues. We want everyone to be happy just like you do, but we think your method is flawed." Then we win the election because you missed the point. This is why you will find such exuberant Trump supporters. There are many tears…

Muslims often say: "Stop calling all of us terrorists and stop saying Islam encourages terrorism because you are missing the real underlying issues. We want everyone to be happy just like you do, but we think your understanding of terrorism is flawed." Can you recognize the parallel between your statement and the one I've paraphrased above?

But the punch line to my statement was:

"Then we win the election because you missed the point."

As in, ignore the message at your own peril, we don't have to care because we are content now.

But in the Muslim's case, the implications for us ignoring their message are more profiling, xenophobia, etc. Which is why I would argue they need to look internally to resolve the issues inside their communities.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#702

Post by machbio »

It was a brilliant play by Peter Thiel - it was gamble of 50:50 (I believe he started supporting him only at the Republican Convention).. There would be backlash by technology community, and when you have lot of money and networking available to you; there is no one in the technology community that will stop doing business with you.. Kudos to the HN crowd about the Freedom of Speech, sometimes - I guess you need to be extremist in either being Left Wing or Right Wing..

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#703

Post by mbesto »

masondixon wrote: post #661
floodyberry- wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you were worried that the repercussions for saying whatever you like may be too high, and in exchange you were willing to potentially sacrifice women's rights, minorities rights, lgbt+ rights, the environment, business regulations, and whatever else conservative Trump appointments might do? If only the third-wave feminist bloggers, social justice warriors, black lives matters activists, etc, had kept their mouths…

> you were willing to potentially sacrifice women's rights, minorities rights, lgbt+ rights, the environment, business regulations, and whatever else conservative Trump appointments might do? You see how here you are saying that I am in favour of sacrificing womens, minorities, lgbt, etc. rights. You see how it is basically saying: You are are a sexist, misogynist, racist? Why don't you ask me what I think about thos…

> Why don't we have a debate on illegal immigration?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but while you personally may want to have a debate about illegal immigration, the person who you support to represent you (Trump) does not want to debate. He just wants to make a sweeping change without anyone in his path.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#704

Post by user837387 »

masondixon wrote: post #575

A huge issue today is the lack of calm, reasoned debate. As a Trump supporter I have never been able to properly explain the rationale to a liberal. I believe there is a worthy debate beneath all the political smear, but it is never reached. I believe the reason for this is the liberal media and the incredibly effective Democratic party election machine. The argument stays at the high level of "how could you vote for…

You are lying to yourself. I think that you don't even realize that you are doing it it. I guess this explains how somebody can vote for Trump. And if Trump screws up the country you will again lie to yourself as to why you are not responsible. Why your vote for Trump did not matter. And then you will blame everybody else.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#705

Post by return0 »

hamax wrote: post #644
masondixon wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…

> One side is for freedom of speech, the other side is for controlling what you can say. There was just one candidate in this election that wants to control what you can say. And it wasn't Hillary. “We’re going to open up those libel laws. So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace, or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win…

Re: libel laws, europe has much much stricter libel laws than US, i don't think they are controlling what we say.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#706

Post by late2part »

mrgordon wrote: post #647
masondixon wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…

Keep in mind that Thiel sued Gawker to stop freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Trump doesn't care and will appoint Thiel to a major position in his administration anyway. Trump also repeatedly sued (or threatened to sue) newspapers who published factual stories about him as well as women who he sexually abused. This is a chilling precedent for free speech: if you are rich enough, then you can just sue to sil…

It's my perception part of Thiel's motivation was to stop Gawker from outing closet homosexuals.

And the freedom of speech you so vigorously protect was to reveal details of a B-List celebrities sexual activities. Where is the moral courage on that?

Yes Freedom of Speech is paramount among our rights, but it's not inviolately absolute. The Gawker guys were scum but that's not why they lost their lawsuit. They lost their lawsuit because a jury felt their actions lacked news value and were a violation of privacy.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#707

Post by peterclary »

masondixon wrote: post #674
59nadir wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would I be way off in saying you're voting against the left more than you are voting for the right, then?

I think the right has changed. 10 years ago it was all anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, super religious, anti-healthcare. I always use to say "I could never vote for the Republicans because of this". So I support most the left-wing policies. But mostly it is a vote against the progressive movement, and the Bernie faction. And corruption is the ultimate destructive force in politics and the Clinton's oozed it. I thin…

I think the Dems are a long, long way away from anything which vaguely passes for communisim. They're almost as capitalist as the Republicans, but - I think - more protections for equality.

The problem is that Capitalism doesn't care about people. It is a system, and the worth of commodities and even people is determined by the market. People lose their jobs because either automation can replace them, or the job can be done cheaper elsewhere. Either way, that is capitalism, and if you support capitalism then that that is the inevitable result. You can try and restrict the impact by reducing global trade, but even if you built a wall around the USA and didn't import anything, as technology gets more and more efficient there will still be fewer and fewer jobs in the USA.

What's your proposal for people who can't get jobs because there aren't enough of them?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#708

Post by late2part »

mch82 wrote: post #652
masondixon wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you ever had explained the liberal rationale to you and did you understand it? My Medium daily update newsletter is full of feminist, progressive, black lives matter articles. I read all of them. I read all the comments on Reddit, and on HN. Everything is labelled as racism and misogynistic and full of vitriol. There is no priority on sound and valid argument. Its all about feelings. Maybe I live in a filter b…

Is it fair to acknowledge that the feelings expressed in the articles you reference are valid feelings and feel true to the people who share them? Edit: Is it fair to acknowledge that the people of the United States have a history of discriminating against minorities?

What is a country that does not have a history of discriminating against minorities?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#709

Post by snowwrestler »

Crito wrote: post #602
snowwrestler wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American pluralism, which the GP post was talking about, is the belief that people of many backgrounds can come together as equals and build a society together. Trump's focus on the Mexican heritage of an American judge (who was born in Chicago, Illinois, USA BTW) is a textbook attack on that idea.

> "the belief that people of many backgrounds can come together as equals and build a society together." not > "the belief that people of many backgrounds ALWAYS come together as equals and build a society together."

Trump's argument was that a fully qualified, experienced, American citizen judge can't participate in civil society--can't do his civil service job properly--simply because his parents were Mexican.

It's un-American and wrong. I'm going to speak out about things like this, and everyone reading this comment should do so as well.

Each of us, every American citizen, is personally responsible for delivering a society that fulfills our ideals. No one else is going to do it for us.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#710

Post by masondixon »

robinwarren wrote: post #598
masondixon wrote: post #575

A huge issue today is the lack of calm, reasoned debate. As a Trump supporter I have never been able to properly explain the rationale to a liberal. I believe there is a worthy debate beneath all the political smear, but it is never reached. I believe the reason for this is the liberal media and the incredibly effective Democratic party election machine. The argument stays at the high level of "how could you vote for…

Why not have a go here, I'd be interested to hear your rationale. On a less important note, re the argument being at a level of "how could you vote for someone who said that". That may not be people refusing to engage with what you see as the important points, but them focusing on what they see as the most important points. That doesn't make it right but if it is the case you may do well to understand their point of…

> they may see everything else as somewhat irrelevant

Yep. But this is what made everyone miss what was happening. It was an emotional response.

But in this case Clinton provided so many analogous examples, which were ignored, which is just plain bias. As bad as someone is you always have to ask: could the same be said as my candidate? And with Hillary is was a yes on everything.

It was always a question of "How could there be so many racists, sexists and xenophobes?". The answer was...there is not. It was the wrong question.

> Anyway, aside complete. Let's hear the rationale for being a Trump supporter, I would be genuinely interested to hear it even if I may ultimately disagree.

I've already posted it in a reply to this comment somewhere.

Mainly corruption - the ultimate poison of a democracy. Counter productive political correctness, money out of politics, bullying and irrational feminists, sjws, and blm supporters. If you don't agree with everything they say you are sexist, racist, misogynist.

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