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Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

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Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#71

Post by notahacker »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
auxym wrote: post #15

As a fresh grad interviewing for (real, non-internship) jobs for the first time, I'm really surprised at how long the hiring process is. The article mentions 23 days average. I'm currently interviewing for a BigCo where I already had done an internship, so they knew me. After I contacted my former supervisor, it took him 2 weeks of wrestling bureaucracy to open a position, then HR insists on collecting CVs for 4 week…

An ex-girlfriend of mine applied, on graduating, for a job at a prestigious investment bank. She heard nothing back. Eighteen months later , after she'd been through two jobs and emigrated, they sent her a letter expressing interest.

Reminds me of the HR department at a big corporation I rejoined after a couple of years' hiatus, only to receive an email a couple of weeks later from their accountants asking me if I'd kindly approve a long-overdue tax form I thought I'd signed off eighteen months before I originally quit...

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#72

Post by JoeAltmaier »

culturestate wrote: post #24
aidos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine what the theory is, but does it make sense in practice? Do you know which industries it tends to apply to? Would a developer be asked to take a drug test? It's interesting, because I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of places over the years and I've never seen drugs as a problem that impedes workplace attendance / performance. Alcohol / hangovers, sure - plenty of times - but they're not testing…

You tend to see drug tests a lot in retail, fast food, and many other low-wage low-skill jobs. I truthfully have no idea how effective that is in weeding out people who would be generally unreliable, but that's often the justification given by managers. I'm sure there are some ultraconservative companies that drug test everyone — including developers and senior managers — but those are few and far between in comparis…

Like Dell.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#73

Post by rm999 »

auxym wrote: post #64
rm999 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shoot to get another job offer. HR treats you much better when they know they have to compete for you - they'll speed up every step of the process, and they'll be more willing to negotiate. Also, you may end up liking the other offer more :)

Thanks for the tip, I'm also quite far into the process with a second company, and still making calls to friends at other places. I do have a question though. When asked about whether you are interviewing elsewhere, what should I answer? Be vague and 1 or 2 other places? Or name specific companies/roles? What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these p…

>Be vague and 1 or 2 other places? Or name specific companies/roles?

I've seen people take both approaches. I like to be open to avoid coming off as antagonistic, but HR folks do sometimes talk to each other across companies and this can potentially harm you if you're not careful.

>What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these places (it also seems to be a standard question)?

I avoid being cornered into making a promise, but I always make it clear that I'm very excited to work for their company. Always. HR people are adept at gauging interest and don't want to be used by applicants. They don't want to hire people who aren't excited about the job. They know you will negotiate when the time comes.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#74

Post by spacemanmatt »

tbomb wrote: post #14
aidos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine what the theory is, but does it make sense in practice? Do you know which industries it tends to apply to? Would a developer be asked to take a drug test? It's interesting, because I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of places over the years and I've never seen drugs as a problem that impedes workplace attendance / performance. Alcohol / hangovers, sure - plenty of times - but they're not testing…

I'm not sure they can test for alcohol since it is federally legal (I know that most places would test for on the job incidents however. I'm meaning it in a "drug test" style screening). Aside from that, I'm not sure how long you can find traces of it in your system. I wouldn't guess it to be longer than 48 hours. EDIT: parentheses content.

CO allowed a company to fire an employee for testing positive for THC. It's fully legal there.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#75

Post by DerKommissar »

aidos wrote: post #9

23% of interviews have a drug test. What's the incentive behind that?

Outside of jobs where it's pretty easy to hurt someone if you're intoxicated (construction, etc.), my personal theory is that it's all about control.

As far as I know companies use piss tests, which don't detect most hard drugs after a few days. They detect pot for weeks. Hair tests will detect anything forever. They are more expensive but if companies actually cared about not hiring people who do hard drugs they would have to do them.

The only purpose I can see for it is that it is a legal leash they can tie to the employee to exert control on their lives. There's lots of other things companies would like to be able to fire you for, but they're either illegal or impossible to detect. Drug testing is one they're allowed to do.

I can understand drug testing people if they cause an accident, are intoxicated at work, etc. but to do it as a matter of course for employment is just to show you who's boss.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#76

Post by Bahamut »

rm999 wrote: post #37
auxym wrote: post #15

As a fresh grad interviewing for (real, non-internship) jobs for the first time, I'm really surprised at how long the hiring process is. The article mentions 23 days average. I'm currently interviewing for a BigCo where I already had done an internship, so they knew me. After I contacted my former supervisor, it took him 2 weeks of wrestling bureaucracy to open a position, then HR insists on collecting CVs for 4 week…

Shoot to get another job offer. HR treats you much better when they know they have to compete for you - they'll speed up every step of the process, and they'll be more willing to negotiate. Also, you may end up liking the other offer more :)

I found this out the hard way - when I first was in the interview process with Google, it took almost 3 weeks before I had a technical phone screen scheduled. I ended up canceling it because I took another offer. Later on, when I started the process and had the initial phone screen, I mentioned that I was interviewing with the likes of Facebook, Amazon, and more, I was immediately told that there was an opening for a technical phone screen the next week.

I think they base part of their scheduling on how many similar companies are trying to hire you.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#77

Post by shalmanese »

k__ wrote: post #54
mjbellantoni wrote: post #20

Hiring velocity is one area where small companies can use their agility to advantage when competing against larger companies for talent. As a hiring manager, I always endeavor to make this process as streamlined as possible. A couple of anecdotes: I was able to hire an outstanding candidate simply because I got them through the process and extended them an offer. Our competition was a reasonably high-profile company…

Sounds strange to me. If I want to work at a big company, I would only consider small companies if the big ones don't want me and not if the big ones just want me a month later.

If it takes a month to get their shit together to hire you, how long would it take you to get anything else routine done at that company? You need a new machine for your first day at work and they put in a request and you'd probably finally get a machine a month later. That sounds like a nightmare place to work.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#78

Post by fecak »

arethuza wrote: post #57
fecak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been recruiting for almost 20 years and have been considering writing a book about various tactics. My blog regularly exposes some of the recruiter tricks and strategies on topics from counteroffers to candidate control. If I become convinced there would be even modest demand, I'd write it.

I love this book "exposing" management consulting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rip-off-Scandalous-Management-Consul... I'd like to read an equivalent for recruiters and as more people encounter recruiters than management consultants I expect the audience would be much larger!

My comment got a few upvotes, so perhaps there is more interest in this topic than I originally thought. I wrote an ebook "Job Tips For Geeks: The Job Search" a couple years ago that included a few tips on working with recruiters, but that wasn't the focus. I'll give it some thought, thanks for the insight.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#79

Post by auxym »

rm999 wrote: post #73
auxym wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the tip, I'm also quite far into the process with a second company, and still making calls to friends at other places. I do have a question though. When asked about whether you are interviewing elsewhere, what should I answer? Be vague and 1 or 2 other places? Or name specific companies/roles? What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these p…

>Be vague and 1 or 2 other places? Or name specific companies/roles? I've seen people take both approaches. I like to be open to avoid coming off as antagonistic, but HR folks do sometimes talk to each other across companies and this can potentially harm you if you're not careful. >What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these places (it also seems to…

Thanks a lot :) Mostly confirms what I was thinking.

Re: Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence

#80

Post by pc86 »

fecak wrote: post #42
arethuza wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another tiresome tactic that recruitment firms use is to leave up ads for roles that were actually filled months ago - either to attract CVs and/or make them look busier than they actually are. Edit: There's probably a book waiting to be written on the dodgy tactics of recruitment firms. Mind you, I became a bit less harsh on individual recruiters when I was in an office that shared a floor of a building with a recru…

I've been recruiting for almost 20 years and have been considering writing a book about various tactics. My blog regularly exposes some of the recruiter tricks and strategies on topics from counteroffers to candidate control. If I become convinced there would be even modest demand, I'd write it.

Please do and please post here when you're done!
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